Alternative to Flourish Excel? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
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Alternative to Flourish Excel?

I have been using excel for some time now and really like how it works.
On the other hand it is pretty expensive. Which is why I will probably eventually setup my pressurized co2 system to service my two other tanks. But also kinda expensive at this point.

I am curious if any other company makes a solution like Flourish Excel and offers it cheaper?

I've found several liquid carbon products used with hydroponics but most places do not list the ingredients. I want to be sure they isnt anything harmful added like copper. Actually I didnt find several solutions but this one pops up in my searches alot.
http://www.wormsway.com/detail.asp?sku=LCG420
Worms Way, Doc's Carbon Grow

I'd appreciate any help I can get on the matter.

Thanks

Last edited by retoid; 06-13-2007 at 05:08 PM.
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007, 05:05 PM
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Ingredients:
Simple Carbohydrates.... 2500 PPM
Simple Proteins....750 PPM
Phospholipids....2500 PPM
NAA....3000 PPM
Kinetin....300 PPM

Hm....I gotta think about this a bit more. Anyone with any other thoughts?
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007, 05:33 PM
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until you have a more specific list of ingredients, its pretty much anyones guess.

and what are they saying NAA is? napthalene acetic acid? or ammonium salt? national apartment association?

the product is not a fert, so the label is wack.
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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Here is some interesting information on Co2.

Phase Diagram of Carbon Dioxide
The phase diagram of CO2 has some common features with that of water: sublimation curve, vaporization curve, triple point, critical temperature and pressure. Of course, the P and T values of are unique to carbon dioxide. The phase diagrams of water and carbon dioxide are compared here.

The triple point of carbon dioxide occure at a pressure of 5.2 atm (3952 torr) and 216.6 K (-56.4oC). At temperature of 197.5 K (-78.5oC), the vapor pressure of solid carbon dioxide is 1 atm (760 torr). At this pressure, the liquid phase is not stable, the solid simply sublimates. Thus solid carbon dioxide is called dry ice, because it does not go through a liquid state in its phase transition at room pressure.

The critical temperature for carbon dioxide is 31.1C, and the critical pressure is 73 atm. Above the critical temeprature, the fluid is called super-critical fluid.

To be more precise, the various point of the phase diagram are further descibed below. In the phase diagram of (a) H2O and (b) CO2, the axes are not drawn to scale. In (a), for water, note the triple point A (0.0098C, 4.58 torr), the normal melting (or freezing) point B (0C, 1 atm), the normal boiling point C (100C, 1 atm), and the critical point D (374.4C, 217.7 atm). In (b), for carbon dioxide, note the triple point X(-56.4C, 5.11 atm), the normal sublimation point Y(-78.5C, 1 atm), and the critical point Z (31.1C, 73.0 atm).

http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/chemweek/CO2/CO2.html

I guess creating liquid carbon dioxide is out of the question for me right now hehe.

Does anyone know what exactly Flourish Excel is and why/how it creates CO2?
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007, 07:56 PM
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It doesn't create CO2 at all. And the active ingredient is glutaraldehyde.

Check www.seachem.com

They have a detailed description of the product.

In college....so no aquariums for a while.....
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007, 09:48 PM
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It does decompose into CO2..........

Regards,
Tom Barr

Regards,
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-13-2007, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, so does any other company offer such a mixture like Flourish Excel and sell it cheaper?
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-13-2007, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain View Post
It does decompose into CO2..........

Regards,
Tom Barr
So will I when I buy the farm. , but I'm not CO2.



I've seen a few knockoffs. I've also heard of people procuring glutaraldehyde and simply using that.

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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-13-2007, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
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Found this on Wiki.

A polymerized isomer of glutaraldehyde trademarked as polycycloglutaracetal by Seachem Laboratories, Inc. is the active ingredient in a product called Flourish Excel, a fertilizer for aquatic plants. It is claimed that it provides a bioavailable source of carbon for higher plants that is not available to algae. Though not marketed as such due to federal regulations, the biocidal effect of glutaraldehyde kills most algae at concentrations of 0.5 - 5.0 ppm. These levels are not harmful to most aquatic fauna and flora. Adverse reactions have been observed by some aquarists at these concentrations in some aquatic mosses, liverworts, and vascular plants.
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-13-2007, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbelvedere View Post
So will I when I buy the farm. , but I'm not CO2.
It decomposes a lot faster than you, has about 11 hour 1/2 life.
Thus like I said, it does supply CO2, and at a significant rate.

It grows plants much faster than without, so the source is from somewhere obviously...........and to increase the growth rates that much for asuch a wide range of plants, => CO2 supply.

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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-13-2007, 09:38 PM
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so how does it provide co2 without impacting pH?
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-13-2007, 11:48 PM
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It's a balanced reaction pH wise and where it occurs is another issue why it does not impact pH to a large degree.
SeaChem does not even know how that occurs, but I do.
Nothing like good old 14C.


Regards,
Tom Barr

Regards,
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 12:22 AM
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Oh. So flourish excel IS CO2. Just less of it. Right? But I bet the algae fighting powers come from the not yet decomposed glutarahyde.

And does that mean dosing it at night would help out the plants more than dosing it in the morning?
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain View Post
It's a balanced reaction pH wise and where it occurs is another issue why it does not impact pH to a large degree.
SeaChem does not even know how that occurs, but I do.
Nothing like good old 14C.


Regards,
Tom Barr
You isotopically labeled what now?
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 02:06 AM
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Flourish Excel is NOT CO2.
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