Ideal water parameters - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-31-2002, 03:59 AM Thread Starter
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What are the ideal water parameters for great plant growth (PH NO3 FE etc.)? Trace elements as well...
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-31-2002, 10:48 PM
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I really hesitate to give these because you can deviate a lot from these and still have success, but here's what the consensus of aquatic gardners would probably be.

GH 2-8 dGH
KH 3-6 dKH
pH 6.5-7.0
NO3 5-10ppm
K+ 20-30ppm
PO4 0.2-0.5ppm
Fe 0-2-0.7ppm

Since Traces can't be tested most are along with Fe rate.
CO2 15-30ppm
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-01-2002, 12:32 AM Thread Starter
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great, thanks
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-23-2002, 10:45 PM
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With my test kit I can test ph, amonia, nitrite, nitrate, KH, GH. Search as I may I have yet to find a test kit for Fe, Po4, K+, or NO3. Is there a way to compute this from the other results or how do you come up with these values? What I can test falls into the parameters just fine but it would be nice to know the rest. My plants seem happy so it must be ok.:hehe:
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-23-2002, 11:01 PM
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I know there is a way to calculate CO2 from your pH and KH, but it isn't a formula or anything. Maybe if you search CO2 table, you will get a table with KH and pH values. The basic trend is that the CO2 is directly proportional to the KH (goes up while the KH goes up) and inversly proportional to the pH (goes up when the pH goes down). Hope this helps!

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-23-2002, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SNPiccolo5
I know there is a way to calculate CO2 from your pH and KH, but it isn't a formula or anything. Maybe if you search CO2 table, you will get a table with KH and pH values. The basic trend is that the CO2 is directly proportional to the KH (goes up while the KH goes up) and inversly proportional to the pH (goes up when the pH goes down). Hope this helps!

-Tim
Actually there is an equation used to calculate the CO2. It is
CO2 = 3.6*KH*10^(7-pH)


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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 01:13 AM
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Search as I may I have yet to find a test kit for Fe, Po4, K+, or NO3. Is there a way to compute this from the other results or how do you come up with these values?
Well, I probably should have spelled out the elements to be tested, my fault for being too lazy.

NO3 is a standard Nitrate test kit

Fe is a Iron test kit, these are dubious at best you can certainly skip buying this one

PO4 is a Phosphate test kit, very good to have one, as it's usually the first parameter to cause problems for most people

K+ there isn't any need to purchase a potassium test kit. Provide plenty of K+ is all you need to do, overdosing of K+ doesn't cause problems.

Lastly, no there is no other way to compute these individual values other than with test kits.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 02:28 AM
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Awesome formula for CO2!! I have to try this... lets see. I am assuming (I know it is dangerous to assume, but heck!) it is in ppm, so here goes. My KH is like 175 or something like that (I'll test tomorrow and get exact results, haven't done a test recently!) 3.6*175*10 ^ (7-8)= 630*10^-1 = 630(1/10)...wait, 63 ppm CO2, now I know my tank doesn't have that much... I'll have to test my KH.

Thanks for the formula though, you can apply every subject to fish tanks (even government)!

-Tim
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 02:32 AM
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Wait, I was just re-reading my previous post (I know it is wierd) and realized that you could put the equation into this form also to show the relations (direct and inverse)

CO2=3.6*KH/10^(pH-7)

Switching the order of the 7 and pH makes the exponent posotive for above 7 and negative for below 7. Sorry...math is my favorite subject, and we just learned about direct and inverse variation...sometimes you might just here me applying everything to newton's 1st, 2nd, and 3rd laws too. It's too late.

-Tim
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-06-2002, 10:58 PM
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Ok all this equation stuff has me googly eyed fella's...
I have a pretty neat lil designed DIY CO2 Reactor and yeastmix... Im gettin a great bubble every 4 - 5 seconds and has been that way now for 4 days and I have been testing ever since.
My 30 gallon tank...
PH - 6.5 (started at 6.9_4 days ago)
KH - 4 deg
GH - 3 deg
Fe - 0.1 ppm

According to these charts at the Krib I am at " deadly " amounts of CO2... yet all my critters are showy and beautiful with no ill effects. Plants are flowing O2.
I have added 4 drops daily of AquaFlora (suggested) and initially added correct dose of FloraPride.

2 questions...
Am I getting too much CO2 with this setup ?
This is not injected...I simply have a " puddle " of CO2 that sits in a mini Vacc too absorb into water.

What is everyones opinion on " Fish Loss " CO2 ppm... How high have you been ?
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-06-2002, 11:18 PM
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according to my calculations your co2 levels are about the same as I use on my 55g, I have yet to loose a fish at these levels due to the co2, old age yes but not the co2
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-06-2002, 11:39 PM
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The fish are looking better then ever and there colors are oustanding. I have mostly tetra varieties , a betta , some ottos and a couple shrimp. The tank is heavily stocked if you go by suggested fish numbers... hehe
I am new to this CO2 stuff and I got a bit nervous with the numbers... but I fall into every category as ideal other then PH being a bit low.
So am I too understand that if I buffer the PH up a bit the CO2 levels will drop to a better amount ?
Or should I regulate the CO2 amount entering the tank...
If I have a fish kill my wife will shoot me.... She allready thinks Im half-crazy with my hours of research and design of the new BuckBubbler...:hehe::hehe:
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-06-2002, 11:53 PM
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If you can regulate the amount of co2 entering the tank to achieve the level you currently have you would be ideal.
with diy co2 I have heard of people using an air pump for a while at night to dissipate excess co2 which might help you should you find the ph dropping further.
the easiest way is to put it onto a timer set to operate for an hour or so to help keep levels down to the required amount especially if the tank is stocked generously.
research done by Berti Gesting has shown that fish can survive at co2 levels in excess of 100mg/l
and black mollies were fine at levels of 500mg/l
guppies were seen to breed at levels of 800mg/l
but as far as plants are concerned they will thrive with 35-45mg/l
I have followed this advise for the last 7 years and my fish breed regularly, many of my pencil fish have been born in the 55g at levels of 35mg/l
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-07-2002, 01:04 AM
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The tank is doing tremendously , and in actuality the fish appear better then before all the plants and CO2.
But I tried to figure it out *numerically* and it just seems to me that by all Ive read it is too much CO2 for the fish... hell these critters aint even thinkin of heading for oxygen at surface , the only time they go there is at feeding

One last stupid question...
I have seen amounts described as mg/l before... how does that relate to ppm ? When you say 35 mg/l is that same as 35 ppm ?
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-07-2002, 01:21 AM
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as far as im aware they are the same. if im wrong then I'm sure some one will be able to correct me.
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