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post #46 of 89 (permalink) Old 08-08-2003, 02:24 PM
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http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_chlorine.htm

I stopped to review WetmanNY's SkepticalAquariist.com site and read up on water and also popped over the Chuck Gadd's site that he referenced on chloramine. I've added on of those links above, you probably ought to read the SkepticalAquarist site to whatever degree you are able -- it is the most complex information, more thorough and thus harder to really understand.

I keep thinking that there is more on the SkepticalAquarist site that might help you understand your water -- couldn't find it in a quick read however.
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post #47 of 89 (permalink) Old 08-08-2003, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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Hi:

I've been using ACE to remove the ammonia. I'm going to visit the link you sent, and try to understand as much as I can . Thanks for the tip!

Molly
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post #48 of 89 (permalink) Old 08-08-2003, 05:17 PM
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Some products that remove chlorine and chloramine contain Sodium hydroxymethane sulfinic acid. If you are massivly overdosing this stuff, it could cause your ph to drop.
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post #49 of 89 (permalink) Old 08-08-2003, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Digger, I went to check the bottles, sure enough the stuff I use to remove chlorine and cloramine does contain Sodium hydroxymethane sulfinic acid. That could be it, I have been using one teaspoon at every water change (about 2 1/2 gallons normally) ACE doesn't list it's ingredients. So perhaps I should reduce water conditioner amount, or switch products, Momotaro
recommended Sechem's Prime.

Thanks!
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post #50 of 89 (permalink) Old 08-08-2003, 10:18 PM
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It sounds like you are on your way! Good for you!

Start using Prime already!!!

Mike

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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post #51 of 89 (permalink) Old 08-08-2003, 11:26 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Mike:

I'm going to get Prime tommorrow, the pet store I get my dog food at doesn't carry it so I didn't get it yesterday when I was out. I did look it up and the product description says it removes ammonia. I'm curious, does your water supply have ammonia in it (from cloramine) and does it successful remove it? The reason I ask is the ph neutralizer says it removes ammonia too, but it doesn't.

Ahh yes, I think we are getting close to solving this problem, I'm feeling really positive about it

I am curious about what the test results will be today since I did a 50% water change yesterday.

Thanks again!

Molly
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post #52 of 89 (permalink) Old 08-08-2003, 11:34 PM
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Molly good to hear that your "lab work" is paying off. Hopefully you will get to the bottom of this soon....keep us posted on your results!

Mike

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100 Gal Planted, two Filstar XP3, Milwaukee SMS 122 pH controller, Milwaukee reg/bubble, compressed CO2, reactor 1000, 7 WCMM, 12 Ottos, 14 neons, 1 SAE, 3 German blue rams, 2 Florida Flag Fish

10 Gallon...20 Endler's live bearers planted, peat/kitty litter/sand substrate

15 Gallon...Just Schultz Aquatic Plant soil
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post #53 of 89 (permalink) Old 08-08-2003, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Mike:

More than anything everyones help and suggestions are paying off, everyone here is just terrific!

I'll get my today results posted this evening.

Thanks soooo much!

Molly
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post #54 of 89 (permalink) Old 08-08-2003, 11:43 PM
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Molly,

ANYTIME! Thats what this forum is all about. I started here a couple of weeks ago and the infomation is INVALUABLE. I am learning how to fertilize this 100 gallon beast now. Rex is really helping me with that.

Take care will check back later!

Mike

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100 Gal Planted, two Filstar XP3, Milwaukee SMS 122 pH controller, Milwaukee reg/bubble, compressed CO2, reactor 1000, 7 WCMM, 12 Ottos, 14 neons, 1 SAE, 3 German blue rams, 2 Florida Flag Fish

10 Gallon...20 Endler's live bearers planted, peat/kitty litter/sand substrate

15 Gallon...Just Schultz Aquatic Plant soil
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post #55 of 89 (permalink) Old 08-08-2003, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
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Oh I can't wait until I get get a bigger tank, I just drool over the big ones at the pet store. This place is terrific, and hopefully before too long I will be in a position to help folks too! :roll:

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post #56 of 89 (permalink) Old 08-09-2003, 12:59 AM
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Be sure to read up on testing while you are trying to get through the SkepticalAquarist site.

"Getting rid" of chloramine can mean just breaking the bond, letting the ammonia free to wreck your tank, or binding the ammonia so that it is avaiable to palnts and biofilter, but not harmful to fish, while it still reads as there on the test, depending on what sort of test kit you have, it is harmless.

Some water conditioners state that if you have chloramine you also need to use the companion product to render the ammonia harmless.

Easiest to just get Prime or something similar, being sure to treat outside the tank or treating the entire tank volume, not just the replaced water if treating in the tank. (Follow directions)
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post #57 of 89 (permalink) Old 08-09-2003, 03:46 AM Thread Starter
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Well more EXCELLENT help!

I think digger got it, reason I say is todays tank tests are:

Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5.0
PH 6.4
GH 7
GH 3
Ammonia .5-1.0

I know I need to put all this into a table, but I did notice overnight the Nitrate increased, the ph dropped. I did the usual 1 tsp. of cloramine/chlorine remover......now I see where I'm goofing (I think).

Still will Prime remove cloramine ammonia, and if it's harmless but reads, how do I know whats safe and not? So you know of a test I can do? Guess you can see I am suffering from some confusion :?

Thanks,

Molly
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post #58 of 89 (permalink) Old 08-09-2003, 04:33 AM
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Unfortunatly I don't really know which is which, but the common test, Nessler, I thnk, cannot tell you if the ammonia is bound or free, so in chloramine water that has been treated, you cannot tell, it just says that ammonia is present.

The other test only reads the free (harmful) ammonia. I think those are dry tablet based tests, you'd have to search for that actual info, I'm really reaching for this, recalling what I've read, not what I've ever done myself.
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post #59 of 89 (permalink) Old 08-09-2003, 04:48 AM Thread Starter
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Hi anonapersona:

I am using Nessler tests, I appreciate your input, gee maybe I need to get a degree in chemistry to have a tanks and not kill fish....just kidding. I think could be wrong is just to make sure no ammonia is present huh?

Molly
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post #60 of 89 (permalink) Old 08-09-2003, 04:59 AM
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Fishkeeping is a hobby, it is supposed to expand your mind as it shrinks your pocketbook.

If you want to know for sure, you'd have to get that other type of test kit, otherwise you can just hope that you've used enough Prime

-- the directions for Prime says

use 1 ml (marked on dispenser) for 10 gallons of new water

with instructions as to when a double dose or half dose might be needed

says it is non acid and will not impact pH
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