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post #31 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-01-2012, 07:16 PM
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Here's another piece of evidence for our puzzle. Today I did a large water change (~80%) in my 75 (which has a 29 gallon sump). I did the water change a couple hours before the lights came on, used pure RO water, and forgot to add the ferts. I came back a couple hours later (just after the lights came on) and noticed all of the plants covered in bubbles, leaves open, etc. One error I made is that since the RO water is stored in a large vat in my basement it was ~67*F rather than the ~75 my tank stays at.

Always curious.
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post #32 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 03:23 AM
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Another idea might have to do with the water level change makes a pressure differential in the cells. When you lower the water level, the pressure on the cells goes down and "stuff" from inside the cell is expelled (unless it is perfectly elastic). When the water level goes back up, the pressure differential forces "stuff" from the water column into the cells.

The cells do that on their own anyway don't they? Maybe the water change just supercharges it.
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post #33 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starquestMM View Post
Another idea might have to do with the water level change makes a pressure differential in the cells. When you lower the water level, the pressure on the cells goes down and "stuff" from inside the cell is expelled (unless it is perfectly elastic). When the water level goes back up, the pressure differential forces "stuff" from the water column into the cells.

The cells do that on their own anyway don't they? Maybe the water change just supercharges it.
That sounds testable in a 2L bottle with a bunch of riccia. Those take a surprising amount of pressure before they burst. Then you could do it without actually changing water.

Always curious.
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post #34 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starquestMM View Post
Another idea might have to do with the water level change makes a pressure differential in the cells. When you lower the water level, the pressure on the cells goes down and "stuff" from inside the cell is expelled (unless it is perfectly elastic). When the water level goes back up, the pressure differential forces "stuff" from the water column into the cells.

The cells do that on their own anyway don't they? Maybe the water change just supercharges it.
Same thing happens with a sponge when you push it down deep into the water and then remove it, then re submerge it again.

Regards,
Tom Barr
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post #35 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 05:52 PM
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That is a very interesting and thought provoking theory Tom. I really never thought of the high amounts of dissolved air/gasses adhere to surfaces and pulling off films that could/would lead to algae. Makes sense that the plants we keep(most of which are not constantly submersed) would benefit from being exposed to the air on a regular basis. The huge weekly water change has always been a part of my aquarium maintence routine, as that is what I did when I kept reef tanks and that is what my dad did 25+ years ago when he was breeding fish. People need to start to understand the importance of constantly adding clean/new water to an enclosed system.
Well you could argue the counter to the mist idea as Gerry and few others, and myself are speculating.

That the mist pulls up the "good" periphyton that protects against algae spores(at least some/certain species) and things you'd rather not grow on the plants. Extra cellular polymers(ECTs) are excreted by bacteria on these periphyton films on leaves, these can slough off natural and reduce turbidity, enhance water clarity. Reducing mist but not 100% reduction , can enhance clarity and perhaps preserves some.most of the good periptyon that acts as a protectorant to algae colonization.

Unhealthly plant leaves, do not support a "good" periphyton community and too much CO2 mist might damage the periphyton a little bit.

So a mix of the of a little bit of mist with the improved water clarity seems to be ideal based on observations blending needle wheel and reactors together to minimize the mist entering the tank, but not having the reactor fill up with gas later in the day.

The periphyton films may be what helps plants dominate in rich nutrients against algae. And to have healthy "good" periphyton.....you need healthy plants.


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The CO2 mist hypothesis is making me think about running my CO2 straight from my needle wheel back into the tank again but I can't get used to the millions of bubbles. I get a quite a few micro bubbles in the tank now just by having the reactor return pointed at the main return pump but nowhere close to when it was being fed into the tank.
See Gerry's thread on BR.
I do this pretty much is more round about ways, my return lines are 6-10 ft long and go through other devices etc. So in effect, they have the same result.

I could perhaps maximize things a bit more by adding a reactor post return.
I've done this on some client tanks due to their larger size, the mist is not very visible in my 180 and 120 etc.

You can see the video and no one notices the mist there.

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Some people you do have to hit it the head with a brick. It doesn't work just to tap people on the shoulder anymore to get their attention.
Only a receptive mind is able to learn. I'm not going to waste my breath on the others.

Regards,
Tom Barr
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post #36 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 12:18 AM Thread Starter
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while we are at it
Tom, i've heard you modify tamm's to act as needle wheel's before ur return pump

enkamat?
are you trimming the impeller?
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