Ultilmate fertilizer for faster plant growth - Page 12 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #166 of 188 (permalink) Old 02-03-2013, 10:20 PM Thread Starter
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thanks tom, i will look into it, looks like Potassium ascorbate can be found easily but the problem is messurment, unless there is calc like WET's calc which can break down the numbers for us.

Monoammonium Phosphate also sounds good, it will provide P and NH4, but messurment might be a problem IMO. it is also good for acidic solution, which we are trying to make.

am not expert but here i go

Monopotassium phosphate 136.086 g/mol
Monoammonium Phosphate 115.03 g mol−1

so we will add about 10% more of Monoammonium Phosphate vs Monopotassium phosphate in the solution to get same amount of P??
i guess no one knows??
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post #167 of 188 (permalink) Old 02-20-2013, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
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New update

this one turned into algae city, excess nutrients could cause algae after this experiment. this time solution was mixed very well and there was no Precipitation of any kind, could be that Humic acid prevented it from happening. i wanted to try amino acid and humic acid in the solution this time, i highly doubt they triggered the algae. humic acid after being mixed in the solution leaves behind a black sand siting on bottom of the solution, am not sure what would that be. amino acid mixed very well and i was not sure how much to add, i made a educated guess and added 1 gram into the solution, which is about 1/4tsp.

this time in this test there was so much algae everywhere and plant weren't doing good at all, this time i was adding 2.68ppm of nitrate and 0.50ppm of Urea everyday per dose and that is a lot of nitrogen in the water, if you look at my first original formula, there is so much less nitrate present in the solution and plant grew like weed, also confirmed by others. my other observation is that having stable Fe is very important, EDTA isn't the best and adding extra has caused some algae issue, stick with DTPA.

conclusion: high amount of Nitrogen can cause serious algae and stunt growth, plant wont grow then you get algae. i hardly doubt that algae and stunt growth was caused by Amino acid or humic acid.


Failed experiment:

50 gallon tank
water parameter:
Ca 30ppm
Mg 6ppm
Kh 0
Ph 6<
co2 high as fish could handle

1000ml solution
20ml everyday dose

5 gram Urea
30 gram Ca Nitrate
20 gram Mg Nitrate
20.0 gram Miller's MicroPlex
5 gram DTPA 10% Fe
1 gram Amino acid
1 gram Humic Acid
1 gram Ascorbic Acid
0.5Potassium Sorbate

dosing separate of:
1.9ppm of K+ everyday
1ppm PO4 3x week



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post #168 of 188 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 02:06 PM
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I agree the DTPA is way better that the EDTA iron.

I tried your macro mix of 7g urea, 10g each MgNO3 and CaNO3 and got green water after only two days. I'm trying Tobi's mix now and will report back with how that goes. I'm dosing to 1 ppm NO3 daily per his recommendations.

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post #169 of 188 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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I agree the DTPA is way better that the EDTA iron.

I tried your macro mix of 7g urea, 10g each MgNO3 and CaNO3 and got green water after only two days. I'm trying Tobi's mix now and will report back with how that goes. I'm dosing to 1 ppm NO3 daily per his recommendations.
Aaron

i wouldn't blame the fert for green water, because me and others haven't experienced the green water yet from this fert. other factors might be causing this issue for you.

what is your fish load? water parameter??

if you are trying tobi's recipe, make sure not to dose extra K+

show me green water in my tank when using my recipe, ludwigia pantanal growing like weed here.
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post #170 of 188 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
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Aaron

i wouldn't blame the fert for green water, because me and others haven't experienced the green water yet from this fert. other factors might be causing this issue for you.

what is your fish load? water parameter??

if you are trying tobi's recipe, make sure not to dose extra K+

show me green water in my tank when using my recipe, ludwigia pantanal growing like weed here.
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Pantanals look happy indeed What substrate are you using and are you using tapwater?




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post #171 of 188 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 04:03 PM
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Pantanals look happy indeed What substrate are you using and are you using tapwater?
Looked over your first post real quick, so let me clarify a bit. It says you use 100% RO, so this means no DI?




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post #172 of 188 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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Looked over your first post real quick, so let me clarify a bit. It says you use 100% RO, so this means no DI?
yeh i used 100% RO water, no Di water. substrate was 2 year old Ada aqua soil

Gh was quite low during the experiment, later i have increased it little bit, before, i was only dosing 1tsp of GH booster during water changes which is very low Ca and Mg, K+ was always kept high.
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post #173 of 188 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 05:09 PM
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Ultilmate fertilizer for faster plant growth

Ok thanks and good stuff!



from my iP 5 via Tapa.




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post #174 of 188 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 05:18 PM
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I can only tell you my experience. I stopped dosing it and went back to just KNO3 for a while and it cleared up.

In the D.C., Maryland, or NOVA area? Come check out The Greater Washington Aquatic Plants Association! www.gwapa.org
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post #175 of 188 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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I can only tell you my experience. I stopped dosing it and went back to just KNO3 for a while and it cleared up.
glad it cleared up for you, but so far you are the first person who had green water when using this fert. you did not answer some of my questions which might plant factor which caused the green water.

what are the water parameter??
did you least did 75% water changes for 2 days before dosing my fert??
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post #176 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-27-2013, 04:48 PM
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happi, the black sand on the bottom is the result of a redox reaction. Basically you oxidized a metal in the acidic solution to the point it couldn't remain aqueous and it precipitated out. Sulfides can result in black sand precipitates.

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post #177 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-27-2013, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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happi, the black sand on the bottom is the result of a redox reaction. Basically you oxidized a metal in the acidic solution to the point it couldn't remain aqueous and it precipitated out. Sulfides can result in black sand precipitates.
are you talking about the humic acid? because this is the only one that leave behind some black sand in the solution, which i thought was normal.
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post #178 of 188 (permalink) Old 04-01-2013, 05:47 PM
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C187H186O89N9S1 is the Chem formula for Humic Acid, basically when a weak acid dilutes in water only some of it will break apart into ions, strong acids completly break apart into ions sulfuric acid, hydrochloric acid are some strong examples. Basically the black sand is the sulfur giving up some electrons till it hits a -2 state and combining with some metal and precipitating out. With out calculating the total ionic formula which based on the chemical list in your post would be extensive, off the top of my head style guess I would say copper sulfide would be your black sand.

From a chemistry stand point I see why Humic acid was chosen it has a huge carbon to oxygen ratio so the carbon availability would be greater. If the goal was having a source of sulfur though its pretty low.

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Last edited by VAtanks; 04-01-2013 at 06:01 PM. Reason: aditional thought
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post #179 of 188 (permalink) Old 05-01-2013, 05:58 AM
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Where do you recommend getting urea from?
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post #180 of 188 (permalink) Old 05-01-2013, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Where do you recommend getting urea from?

can be bought from ebay, very cheap.
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