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Fert dosing a 60g (220l)

1K views 5 replies 4 participants last post by  Bert2oo1 
#1 ·
Hey guys I've recently set up a 60g (220l) and stripped down my old 30g.

I'm really having trouble getting the balance right in this tank for some reason.

Substrate is Eco complete with clay tabs.

My water is very soft 40ppm TDS

Lighting is capable of being extremely strong. 160 par at substrate level on 100%.
Currently running at 60% for 8 hours per day.

Have 30ppm of injected co2 (1.2ph drop at 4kh)

Currently I'm dosing,
11.15g mgso4
2.2kno3
0.5g kh2po4
Do I need to dose extra k?
These are dosed 3 times per week.

0.6ppm of iron (seachem iron) per week
Currently no other micro dosing due to toxicity.

Also adding seachem replenish for the calcium 1 day per week. (20ml)

I dosed full EI micro's/macros for the first 2 weeks and my plants responded very badly. All my plants curled and twisted, looked white with green veins, growth came to a complete stop, leaf tips burnt.

Now most of these are signs of micro deficiency but dosing full EI micro's 0.6g of Aquagreen trace 3 times per week I should have been no way deficient.

So I put this down to micro's becoming toxic. Since then I have completely stopped dosing micro's and have preformed 4-5 70% water changes over the last 2 weeks.

Growth has started to pick up however most plants are still looking bad.

My question is, is there something obvious I'm missing here?

My plant mass is pretty moderate as I have a lot of room for a HC carpet.

I'm considering using crushed coral in my filter so I don't have to dose calcium. Will that be enough?

Any help is appreciated!
Thanks!
 

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#2 ·
My water is very soft 40ppm TDS

Have 30ppm of injected co2 (1.2ph drop at 4kh)

Currently I'm dosing,
11.15g mgso4
2.2kno3
0.5g kh2po4
Do I need to dose extra k?
These are dosed 3 times per week.

0.6ppm of iron (seachem iron) per week
Currently no other micro dosing due to toxicity.

Also adding seachem replenish for the calcium 1 day per week. (20ml)

All my plants curled and twisted, looked white with green veins, growth came to a complete stop, leaf tips burnt.

I'm considering using crushed coral in my filter so I don't have to dose calcium. Will that be enough?
Hey bert

Let me start from the end a little bit. What you are describing sounds a lot like Mg deficiency...

It sounds like you overlooked some aspects of the Estimative Index in your decision making. Estimative Index is mainly about providing non-limiting nutrient levels to plants. I will not go into describing every detail as it sounds like you read about them already, but I will underscore some essential points. I recommend understanding and knowing a system, rather than changing all things all the time and believing everything you read online. Stick to a system. Many people are able to grow many sp. of plants using the EI system, maybe it would be a good idea to try and copy what they are doing at first.

Now let's start with EI and your system

1) Water changes
Relax, breathe and think what you are doing. 5x ~50% water change in one week means that you are throwing out what you are adding ... no wonder your plants are doing poorly... they are starving.
Say you start with your dose of 6ppm NO3 on day 1,
day 2 start-6ppm ;50%wc- 3ppm,
day 3 start-9ppm(3+6); 50%wc-4,5ppm
day 4 start 4,5ppm; 50%wc -2,25ppm
day 5 start 8,25ppm; 50%wc- 4,13ppm
day 6 start 4,13ppm; 50%wc - 2,05ppm
day 7 start 2,05ppm;

And this is just the math assuming that plant don't use up any nutrients. Consider where you are at the end of the week in terms of reaching the EI target of 20-30ppm NO3. Even PPS-Pro recommends you target a 10ppm NO3 stable level. What I showed here applies to everything you dose not just NO3.

EI system at the basic level recommends 50% water change per week. You can of course change this but you need to figure out how to keep the nutrients non-limiting for plant growth.


2) Mg and Ca
Both Mg and Ca are macro nutrients. You can measure their sum by using the GH test kit. Typically they are not included in the dosing regime because most of us have hard water. However, that EI guy, Tom Barr recommends 3-5ppm Mg and around 20ppm Ca as min. conc. . No need to walk the line here, many of us have grown plant at higher conc

Your Mg dose adds 5ppm per dose , that means 15ppm Mg per week, plus what seachem replenish adds. That is really to much. Are you sure you are measuring g and not mg ? I don't have time to look at the exact ppm of Seachem Replenish but it looks like if you add 2x the dose for the volume of water changed your aquarium will stay around 6°dGH. That is if you change 100L add 12ml.

3)Something does not add up

I understand that your aquarium KH is 4. All the things dosed don't add up to a TDS of 40 :confused: What is your current TDS ? current KH ? GH ?

4)Trace nutrients

First allow me to say that plants need all the nutrients to be present in order to have a healthy growth. Then I will be axiomatic and say that trace nutrients / micro nutrients are called nutrients for a reason. Excluding them is like excluding all salts from your diet and drinking Reverse Osmosis water...

5) New tanks new problems

Even the best sometimes struggle with a new tank. Don't become to stressed with how things run in the first few weeks. Plants need time to get established , new bacterial colonies are formed etc. It also helps to be consistent, plants adapt to certain concentrations of nutrients in solution. Give them time to adapt to either high or low. If you continue to have problems reduce the light intensity for now. Lower light often will decrease the stress on plants to grow in the absence of something. The plant mass is indeed towards low but you can compensate for it by adding some floaters.

Let us know how it works out and if you have any other questions.

Regards,
duky
 
#3 ·
Hi duky, thanks for you reply.

I apologise I haven't been very clear with my info.

My tap water is 40ppm TDS. (1 GH 1 KH)
My tank after water change sits at around 100 TDS and by the end of the week it's about 250 TDS.

I did 4x 50%+ water changes over 2 weeks and after every change I've been dosing full macros. (including mgso4).

My mgso4 isn't pure mgso4, I'm dosing Epsom salts so that's why it's 11.15g 3 days per week. Do I only need to dose this once after a water change? Rotala butterfly calculator told me to add it 2-4 times a week?

I've just added crushed coral to my filter so will that be enough of a calcium source to do away with the seachem replenish?

So I should be dosing atleast a small amount to micro's? Maybe like 0.2g 2x per week to start?

Also my kno3 is putting me up over 40ppm before water change so should I be knocking this back to half strength untill my plants grow in?

I've got a heap of hygrophila I trimmed so can I just leave that floating around at the surface?

Edit: sorry forgot tank GH and kh is
10GH and 3KH



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#4 ·
I've settled with 11.5g mgso4 at water change.
2.2g kno3 and 0.5g kh2po4
4x per week
0.2g micro mix 2x per week
10ml seachem iron 3x per week.
I've also now got crushed coral in my filter to buff the GH abit.

I'll see how things go over the next month or so


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#5 ·
Sounds like you've fallen into the over thinking trap. I would simply follow the EI method. Were you adding a GH booster? If not you were not using the EI method. No need for coral in the filter if you use the EI method.

These are the correct EI doses for your tank,

KNO3 2.78 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)

KH2PO4 423.1 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoons)

K2SO4 1.13 gm (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)

Plantex CSM+B 1.74 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)

NilOCG GH Booster 26.0 gm (approximately 6 1/4 teaspoons) Weekly after a 50% water change

That said if you want to reduce trace nutrients and add additional iron I don't think you'll have an issue. Maybe target trace to an iron level of 0.3 ppm and add 0.2 ppm of iron. Remember though. It's no longer the EI method. Just saying...don't blame EI if you don't follow it to the letter.:wink2:
 
#6 ·
Sounds like you've fallen into the over thinking trap. I would simply follow the EI method. Were you adding a GH booster? If not you were not using the EI method. No need for coral in the filter if you use the EI method.



These are the correct EI doses for your tank,



KNO3 2.78 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)



KH2PO4 423.1 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoons)



K2SO4 1.13 gm (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)



Plantex CSM+B 1.74 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)



NilOCG GH Booster 26.0 gm (approximately 6 1/4 teaspoons) Weekly after a 50% water change



That said if you want to reduce trace nutrients and add additional iron I don't think you'll have an issue. Maybe target trace to an iron level of 0.3 ppm and add 0.2 ppm of iron. Remember though. It's no longer the EI method. Just saying...don't blame EI if you don't follow it to the letter.:wink2:


I wouldn't blame EI. I know it's a great system and works for many many people.

Do you really think I'd need GH booster with the coral and the mg tho? That basically adding what is in the GH booster?

Is the extra k needed? My plant mass is pretty low at the moment.

Good to know I'm on the right track with the micro's.

Your right about me over thinking it. I've been reading so much info of all different opinions and it's just making my head spin haha.


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