I am having issues getting my parameters to stabalize. The tank has been running for two months now. Below you will find everything in the tank. I've been losing fish the past couple of days. I lost all of the guppies I had. I'm not sure what's going on.
Now, before you all freak out, I recently had an outbreak of ICH, finally got rid of that. After that is when I lost the guppies.
I recently bought a kH test kit to measure that. I was dosing it like it said, but it never started out blue. I got to 4 drops and was able to actually tell it was yellow.
I use a DIY CO2 system which consists of Sodium Bicarbonate, Citric Acid, and of course water.
What does a guy do? I have never had so much issues. :frown2:
I think Gh Booster dosed .25 tsp daily for 1 week and then weekly plus Potassium Nitrate .5 tsp weekly would help. Also iron chelated would help ludwiga to maintain its red coller. At greenleafaquarium You can buy Gh for $5 and Potassium nitrate for $3, Iron chelated $8. Shipping around $7
What size tank is this and how many guppies did you have and loose? Any other fish that you've lost?
I wouldnt worry about your ph and kh so much right now while you're getting any discernible ammonia readings. My guess is the fish are dead due to ammonia poisoning. In the 2 months that the tank has been up and running have you been testing the water parameters? Can you confirm the tank ever completed the initial nitrogen cycle? With such a high ammonia reading and such a low nitrate reading my guess is the tank is still cycling.
I initially had 10 guppies, 4 platies, 6 cories, 2 rubber lip pleco as well. Then I got Ich, so 1 platy, both plecos, and 6 guppies didn't make it through that. Now, I'm having this issue.
I think Gh Booster dosed .25 tsp daily for 1 week and then weekly plus Potassium Nitrate .5 tsp weekly would help. Also iron chelated would help ludwiga to maintain its red coller. At greenleafaquarium You can buy Gh for $5 and Potassium nitrate for $3, Iron chelated $8. Shipping around $7
Definitely not finished cycling. API stress coat will help the fish deal with the ammonia. Use Seachem Prime to bring the ammonia down. Use Marineland Bio-spira speed the cycling up.
Are your pH readings from a de-gassed water sample since you are using CO2.
As others have said seems like ammonia content is the problem.
Does a cycle stall without enough NH3, sure it will.
With that low of pH total ammonia reading are almost all NH4.
Does BB process NH4, I am unsure, someone will chime in.
I doubt it since there are complaints of cycling a low pH tank.
IMO raise KH by adding CaCO3 to about 2-3 dKH.
CaCO3 is not very soluble but in low pH it will dissolve.
Another alternative would be CaSO4(gypsum) food grade from a brew store, dissolves a little better.
Both of these will make a white cloud for about 6 hours to raise 2 dKH.
Reduce CO2 output to half of what you use now.
Raise pH to 7.2 to 7.5 and complete cycle first.
Once cycled you adjust total water hardness with WC's.
KH test kit for very low KH.
Use 10ml sample each drop is .5 dKH
Use 20ml sample each drop is .25 dKH
If 1 drop in 20ml doesn't show a light blue hue, don't bother wasting drops.
Do you know the GH of your tank water?
That can be raised with MgSO4.7H2O(epsom salt/magnesium sulfate)
This stuff dissolves quite readily without clouding.
I only mention these compounds since they are cheap and locally available in most places.
$3 to $5 per pound is typical.
Note of caution: when you raise the pH your water will become more toxic (NH4 back to NH3) to your existing livestock.
These large alkalinity changes are also not easy on livestock.
Regarding ICH: Could be possible that ammonia stressed fish are more susceptible to many illnesses.
If this water is from the tap it may need to be always mineralized depending on livestock choices.
CYCLING FISHLESS by Dr. Tim
Remover filter floss
Bacteria shake and add. Should be cloudy
Add Ammonia. 1 drop per gallon
Wait 24hrs
Redo 2x more. Wait 24hrs after each time.
Have 0 for both 2 days do water change and add fish.
Takes 5 to 7 days.
Do not need to feed bacteria daily.
I should have reworded this but let it go anyway.
NH3 in any amount will still cycle only creating enough bacteria to handle the load presented.
When pH is increased the NH3 load is increased converting NH4 to NH3.
The real question relative to a low pH cycle is can BB handle NH4?
I do not know other than hearing claims of difficulty cycling a low pH tank.
Typical CO2 measurements
Test water in tank for pH with your injected CO2.
Put an air stone in a sample for say 30 minutes and test.
A 1.0 drop in pH is equal to about 30ppm of CO2.
(Degassed sample pH - tank CO2 sample pH)*30 = ppm of CO2.
Just wondering what your pH is without CO2 injection.
Reducing your CO2 content will raise your pH some.
1 BPS depends on the size of orifice gas is passed through.
Dump 2 - 5ml samples in a glass or any other container you can see through.
Just use 5ml tube as a measuring device.
Shot glass works great, omit the whiskey though.
My LFS charges $1 for any test these days, no weekend testing in their store.
I get it though, the employee is not waiting on customers.
Testing takes time.
They are swamped on the weekend.
I get it done free at Petsmart or Petco or Pet Supermarket. Thus since my test kit has expired I just let them test my water. I just got Gh/ Kh test kit for I am going to be injecting Co2 and the Kh needs to be at a good level before doing it.
This.
2ppm of ammonia is deadly high. This needs to be the focus first. Do a large water change 70% right away and then do some partial daily water changes. Is that a hob filter? How much media is in your filter? If it is, lose the inserts and shove a bunch of ceramic media in there instead.
I think a 50% water change would be safer. Perhaps 50% water change + 10ml of Kordon + 10ml API Stress + 1 small bag of Marineland Bio-spira start would correct the problem. Daily water changes uncertain if will correct the problem for it increases the time of a cycle.
The guppies will have fallen apart due to low pH and likely very soft water, so that won't help. I doubt the platies will fare much better, since most livebearers need hard water. At low pH their bones can decalcify from the effort of producing fry.
Your filter cycle also can't occur if your pH is that low. As you drop below 6.5 you get more and more ammonia coverted to ammonium, which is less toxic but which can't be consumed by bacteria. Every time you swing around this you're stressing your fish, for the reasons Maryland discussed.
I'd either keep your pH below 6.5 at all times and stick with the softwater fish (ie neons likely won't care at pH5), or keep your pH at at least 6.5 at all times. On the low end you're asking for trouble with DIY Co2 because you can't guarantee the output will be consistent, and if you swing from consistently 6 (or less) to 7 you'll likely kill everything off in short order.
Here are my tap water parameters. Please not that KH took three drops to change from blue to yellow. Where currently, one drop doesn't even turn the water blue from my aquarium.
Not that I am aware of. I'm pretty much feeding what they eat within about a two minute period. I can't say that 100% certainly that I haven't though if you know what I mean.
Bump:
Dose for a 20g for you have too much ammonia in the tank. Don't forget to get the small bag of marineland Bio-spira. You need the whole bag in the tank. Then test the nitrites and ammonia. If after 1 week nitrites or ammonia go up add 10ml of the Bio-spira. That is what I am doing with my new tank.[/QUOTE]
Alright, I'll treat it for the full 20g.
So that I have this right, use a full bag at first, then after a week test the parameters, if not stable, just att 10ml of bio-spira? Do I have that correct?
Your tank water looks like the tests you took on the tap.
The pictures are about identical except for pH reading.
A cycled tank could handle a little ammonia from the tap during a WC.
Accumulating NO3 would be your issue depending on WC schedule.
I looked over this whole thread again.
Substrate being sand should not reduce the hardness.
It is all sand? Not just a sand cap correct?
The reddish look on one of your pics made me think SafeTSorb but not the case.
CO2 will drop the pH but not remove the KH from your water.
Your tap is 3 dKH, that would be stable if you can keep it in the tank.
Is there anything in the tank that could suck up carbonates?
Doesn't look like it from the tank pics.
In the pics there are some some chunks of rock looks broken?
DIY CO2 got me thinking.
Any chance that citric acid is making it's way to the tank?
If you turn off CO2 I wonder how much pH would rise with very low KH.
I am almost at a loss if the citric acid isn't the culprit.
Which has a y shaped tubing that should be preventing this.
I also tested pH about 30 minutes of turning bubbles on with co2 off(been off since last night) and pH is the same. So I took a smaller sample of water in a red solo cup, put an air stone in it, let it run for an hour, and the pH stayed the same.
One last thought.
1 gallon of tap in a drywall bucket and move CO2 diffuser to it.
Don't disturb the assembly just move the hose over to the bucket.
Test the KH before and after a fixed period of time.
So... My next question then is, say I get my. Kh up to 9, I start injecting Co2, everything is stabilized... Now, I start doing weekly water changes, won't I end up with the same problem I'm currently having? Also, where did you come up with the number 9
The meaning of the term "pH buffer" is that the pH will not change for small additions of a weak acid, like citric acid. The carbonates (bicarbonates) and the carbonic acid (from the small portion of dissolved CO2 in water)form a pH buffer. That buffer holds the pH of the water constant when small amounts of citric acid get into the water. However, the pH can temporarily drop a bit with that acid being added, but it goes back to what it was. So, I don't believe any possible "leak" of citric acid into the water will change the pH.
Are you shutting off the CO2 when the lights are off? If so is the pH of the water higher before the lights come back on?
I was running my Fluval U2(??) with nothing in it. I had enough plants to take care of any ammonia. I encourage you to add a lot of fast-growing plants like Hygros and make sure you have enough light to power them.
I would suggest trying to work with the pH you have. Otherwise, try to increase the pH. Use fertilizers for the plants. IMO, this is absolutely a necessity. Use 1/4 Estimated Index (EI) - you can buy it dry and mix it up according to the recipe posted here.
Take your time observing the results. I really hope you get some good ones.
I've never need to use ferts before, so this is new to me. I see a lot of recommendations here so i appreciate it. I am going to look into it after the holiday.
I find that the bio wheel that comes with that filter isn't sufficient to hold the amount of bb that you need. I would remove the insert carbon/mesh and put a piece of mesh covering the bottom of the filter and then fill it to the top with a bio media such as ceramic rings. You can still successfully get your cycled finished at lower ammonia levels such as .25/.5 ppm. 2 is just high.
I was running my Fluval U2(??) with nothing in it. I had enough plants to take care of any ammonia. I encourage you to add a lot of fast-growing plants like Hygros and make sure you have enough light to power them.
I would suggest trying to work with the pH you have. Otherwise, try to increase the pH. Use fertilizers for the plants. IMO, this is absolutely a necessity. Use 1/4 Estimated Index (EI) - you can buy it dry and mix it up according to the recipe posted here.
Take your time observing the results. I really hope you get some good ones.
I read - GH and KH can be as low as 1-degree, but watch it! These bacteria may use the carbon in carbonates, and if it is all used up (KH = 0) the bacteria may die off. Could this had happened?
This is very strange case. Seems logically that you do not have enough bacteria for the output of ammonia. Possibly the city is dosing something different in the water. Have you gotten your city's quality test.
Wow! Look at the pH listed in that water report! 9.9 pH is very hard water, normally. But, I saw nothing in the report that suggested a high KH. The alkalinity, which is essentially the KH, is low. The water company seems to be doctoring the water to raise the pH much higher than we usually see. If this operates as we are used to, you could let a sample of the water sit for a day, in the open air, and the pH would drop significantly.
pH: 6.0 -- It's much more yellow today, I think improving. (did a 50% water change yesterday, added amquel plus, and stability.)
Ammonia -- .25
Nitrite -- 0
Nitrate -- 5.0
kH -- 3 drops (im not certain this is right, it never starts blue initially so i drop until i see it yellow)
Temp -- 76
As you can see my Ammonia and Nitrates changes big time from yesterday's readings. I think i might still go to petsmart and let them check too.
Also, I took the rocks out of the tank to see if that's doing anything. If not, the next thing I'll take out is the airstone wall. it has stones holding it down that came with it, but we'll see. I have no other options to think of. My CO2 system is still off.
Have you tried putting a pinch of that sodium bicarb in a cup with some water, testing it, and making sure the KH test kit isn't defective?
I'm sure this will make people on here scream, but I used to put a little baking soda (sodium bicarb) in my tank to increase the KH up to 2-4 and stabilize my pH. It only took a tiny amount, and I never lost a fish. I kept anything I wanted. I switched to Seachem Alk Buffer at some point because it was more quantifiable for me.
SO, I dosed with the pH booster yesterday evening, and nothing has changed. I'm about to pull my hair out.
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