I am not debating whether copper can kill shrimp, caffine can kill you as well, but not at low doses, just like most any drug or nutrient.
At issue is whether or not Flourish, TMG etc can kill shrimp at higher levels, specifically cherries and Amanos, which I have more than I can count.
They are breeding like flies.
I've tested very high chronic levels of traces for many years and have added the upper ranges of traces routinely to my tanks without ever seeing any evidence of shrimp death/health issues.
Now if Cu kills shrimp and you want to express yourself about that fact fine, but not one of you have given any idea of what specific ranges of Cu
and trace additions we are talking about.
Now 200mls of Flourish in a 20 gallon tank is 40X the suggested maximum dosing I give for a heavily planted high light /CO2 enriched tank.
and I tend to give richer nutrient dosing advice compared to about everyone.
Not one shrimp death/issue in over 6 years(Amano's) or so of keeping many of the them in tanks. So if that amount does not kill a shrimp, why would it stand to reason that traces possess enough Cu in them to cause any adverse effects? I've kept Cherries for about 1.5 years now
I'm not saying what killed the shrimp(many possible reasons there), I'm saying what it is not
Such small relative amounts in the traces, even at pretty rich levels will not harm these shrimps.
I have hard numbers/volumes specifically on the critters in question and the product in question with zero fatalities over long time frames with various tap water KH's ranging from 1 to 11 and many other variables without issue. So do many other folks in our club.
Now if the Cu in traces kills shrimp, please do tell how much I need to add to kill/harm the shrimps.......................???
Give me a no#.
I disagree that any amount will hurt them, after all, copper is used as nutrient in us and the shrimps.........
Unless you want to add some 40X or more over EI rich dosing............few would waste their traces at that high level either
Serious shrimp breeder or not, I cannot stop the suckers from breeding and I add a lot of traces daily or 3x a week at 5mls per 20 gal of water.
So I know at the levels I add, it's not copper killing this person's shrimp and that adding traces even at high levels over many years has no adverse effects on them. I'ver added 2x this amount and dosed 6x a week also without issue with Amano shrimps and ghost shrimps for 6 weeks.
There are many folks in our local club that add lots of TMG or flourish and have lots of breeding cherries and folks have KH's from 1- to 14 in our local area. They breed like flies so everyone has more than they care for at this point in the club. Everyone adds traces at fairly rich levels without issue.
Now if there is an issue with any copper being added, how come none of us have had any issues?
Copper hysteria it sounds like to me, rather than trying it and actually seeing if the supposed evil copper is doing the deeds claimed under aquarium's conditions.
If what folks claim is true, I ought to be able to repeat the test and see similar results, I've already done the observation/test for a long time.......so I know it's not the traces' copper content.
Where are all my dead shrimp?
How much do I need to add and for how long to kill or otherwise harm the shrimp?