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my first planted tank...please help :/

12K views 114 replies 16 participants last post by  jonnyboy 
#1 ·
I've had my tank for a few months now and am getting frustrated with my plants. They are not dying, but don't look healthy are are not growing.

TANK: 20gal 24Lx13wx17h
LIGHT:18" 15watt full spectrum
SUBSTRATE: 1/2 eco complete substrate. 1/2 quarter inch stones
FERTILIZER: Flourish Seachem. Weekly doses
TEMP: always right around 79 degrees
PH: around 7, but just ordered an API Pro kit to replace test strips
All other tests seem to be in normal ranges....according to test strips
FISH: 7 fish, 3 red cherry shrimp. just lost my Oto Cat :(
PLANTS: 2crypt parva, 1rangeri sword, 2bronze wendtii, 1lutea, 3noname grasses

My main question is why my plants arent growing. lights are on a 9hr cycle, I use weekly flourish seachem doses, weekly 25%-40% water changes always with conditioner....is it the lights? I just ordered a Co2 diffuser to go with my DIY Co2 system which will be in in a few days.
If you tell me to get better lights please give me some recommendations and/or links....I've been reading and shopping for the past couple nights and am really not sure which way to go. Theres so many options and brands and I don't want to buy the wrong one. Aqueon doesnt make a good versatile hood, so I'm ready to make a decent investment.
ANY advice will be MUCH appreciated!!!
 

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#34 ·
Yeah so I will raise the light some more and do more tea search on EI dosing.
I would leave your light where it is. It is just a little brighter than mine is over my 29G. The rotala will have better color with the light as it is.

For ferts I would just add Seachem iron for the rotala to get more pink in the leaves. The crypts could use some API root tabs. Cheapest here. No need for the EI fert plan for the plants that you have.

Why not put the co2 tube below the intake of the filter? That is what I have read that many do. Also can put it in the into a powerhead.
 
#38 ·
I don't mind spending $10-$20 for an indicator. Already found one on amazon. And I think if I fertilize the substrate(which I've never done) it will help. The only plants that haven't shown new growth over a reasonable amount of time are the narrow leaf, and the crypts...which are slow growing anyways. So not too worried about growth, mainly healthy looking leaves staying healthy
 
#40 ·
I finally got my glass nano Co2 diffuser the other day. It's been installed with a fresh mixture in my two Co2 generators for more than a day now....still no bubbles. Is this one only supposed to be used with pressurized Co2? I did notice that it was extremely difficult to blow air through it when I installed it....wicked frustrating since it took 4 weeks to be delivered....
 
#42 ·
I'll try to keep this short....but having plant problems again.
My rangeri sword which has never done well, is doing worse. Holes/brown spots on leaves(new or old) and black algae growing on them. Broad leaf has also never done too well is no longer growing, and has always has a 'wrinkly' look to the leaves. My red melon sword has actually done very well at times is looking sickly with leaves dying, wrinkling a little, and black algae on it. The crypts have a bunch of algae on them, but no change with them. They always have a wrinkled look, but I think they're supposed to. The only plant doing well still is the rotala. Also have alotta green/brown algae on bottom

Dosing seachem's flourish, trace, excel, and potassium. Have 11 fish, and 4 amano shrimp. 20 gal tank, with two quiet flow pumping 200gal/hr. temp 77. Par at about 50-55. Lights are on 4hrs, off 2hrs, and then back on for 4hrs. Was running 1 bubble every 4 seconds with my DIY Co2 and diffuser which I've had off for almost a week now. No change in anything from that.

Only recent change I've made is adding the second filter. As always, any help is much appreciated!
 
#44 ·
I put a new root tab under my melon sword a week or two ago and it's putting out all kinds of white roots and 2 new leaves, in the midst of a Cyanobacteria bloom. So I think they work, maybe take a week or two.

I don't know PAR values off the top of my head, but check out the thread on PAR posted by Hoppy and look at the tank in terms of brightness.

Every staggered light description I've read was 4 on, 4 off, 4 on. I don't know that that has anything to do with these problems. It sounds like perhaps one or more of the NPK nutrients is too low, or micros need to be at a higher dose. It has been difficult for me too figure out that kind of problem in my tank. Following is a visual of plant nutrient deficiency symptoms.

http://infographics.myaquacalc.com/?p=333

Nutrient Calculator: http://calc.petalphile.com/
 
#45 ·
I've been using the root tabs and am due for my second usage. It's probably co2 deficiency....I'll have to get an indicator and find a better way of regulating a consistent bubble count. That diagram is nice though! Thanks for that

Any opinions on the seachem plant pack? I don't want to dose daily, so I'm avoiding dry ferts. I like seachem, they're straightforward and easy to use.
 
#46 ·
Does it matter if I add all my seachem products to my weekly water change or should I spread them apart? I'm doing a 40% water change every 10 days or so.

So I was thinking of dosing the comprehensive, trace, and excel with my water change. And a couple days later add the NPK dose.

Still have pretty bad algae on substrate and some on glass which is the main reason for my water change every 10 days. I'm hoping I can stretch that to a water change every 2-3 weeks....should I just keep raising the lights after every wc till Im happy with it? I'm at about 45-50 par and have 1 bubble every 2 secs going through my diffuser
 
#47 · (Edited)
Does it matter if I add all my seachem products to my weekly water change or should I spread them apart? I'm doing a 40% water change every 10 days or so.<br /><br />
<br /><br />
So I was thinking of dosing the comprehensive, trace, and excel with my water change. And a couple days later add the NPK dose.<br /><br />
<br /><br />
Still have pretty bad algae on substrate and some on glass which is the main reason for my water change every 10 days. I'm hoping I can stretch that to a water change every 2-3 weeks....should I just keep raising the lights after every wc till Im happy with it? I'm at about 45-50 par and have 1 bubble every 2 secs going through my diffuser
<br /><br />
<br /><br />
If you're dosing trace, you don't need the Flourish Comprehensive. That's what Flourish Comp is for - same thing. Matter of fact, if you're running a low-tech tank, people have told me that for low light all you need is Flourish Comprehensive - the plants get the NPK from the new water and fish poop.<br /><br />
<br /><br />
I would raise the lights a significant amount, like 12&quot;, and look at the tank from the front and see if there is enough light. Adjust as necessary, and decrease the photoperiod to 6 for a few weeks and see if the algae goes away. I found that doing weekly 50% changes helped with the algae, and I also removed the algae as much as I could manually. I had hair algae too (I think that's what you've got. Put up a pic and peeople will id it. I'll see if I can put up a link to help with the algae. Also, re-check the recommended dosage of Flourish Comp.
 
#48 ·
It does say that you can use comp and trace together on the bottle, but I will try using up the comp by itself first then. And that's what I thought with the NPK nutrients, but I guess since I rushed into getting a new light a couple months ago it puts me in the high tech? With what I've read and what I've been told the only thin that makes sense is lack of macros.
I'm doing a cleaning/water change tonight so I'll raise the lights another inch. Which will put me at 40-45 par according to hoppy's estimates. We will see if adding a low dosage of macro nutrients will help too. Thanks for the help dgango

And here's a pic of the worst of the algae on the bottom. The algae on the glass doesn't bother me too much. I just have to scrape it once a week. It's a whitish color on the glass, but green on the scraper. Got the black algae on the plants under control as well
 

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#54 ·
Plants are still struggling. I was told to dose Epsom salts or magnesium chloride. I don't know how to dose these and have been reading through threads on here for a while now. Links usually don't exhist that are supposed to help, and I'm no chemist so I get confused with some things. I'm not going to dose till I know what I'm doing, but if someone can help me that would be much appreciated!

I have an old thing of Epsom salts. It says it's a 100% natural mineral. The brand is 'white mountain' if that means anything to anyone.
 
#56 ·
I would first make certain you have good water circulation where the algae is.

The algae on the rocks looks like the green algae you get on the glass.

Dosing with substance like epsom salts can alter water parameters and thus kill fish. That is what happened with a ram I had.
 
#57 ·
Thanks for the link Django! It did help after I found where you got the link haha

Algae is still existent but not a nuisance anymore. And that's why I'm trying to find a dosing chart for the Epsom salts....but it's the only thing I haven't tried for my plants! The symptoms point to lack of magnesium chloride....unless you can think of somethin else that I haven't tried?
 
#66 ·
I just want to say one thing so we're all on the same page. Many knowledgeable people have assured me that a low-to-medium light low tech tank runs fine on fish food -> fish poop for P and K, Nitrogen from the dissolved compounds in the water, plus trace elements (Comprehensive) as directed. With that in place, any problems must be something else, or the light is wrong, etc.

Unfortunately, although Aquariology sits on some science, we don't have the equipment or the training to use it. So, it becomes an art. I am coming to the conclusion that for myself, a familiarity with what to do with a planted aquarium comes through personal experience, and there's no hurrying it along any faster. It *is* useful to find out what other people are saying about and doing with their balanced Planted Aquariums so it may be used when you get there.
 
#67 ·
Thanks Django! I understand what you're saying, it's just so frustrating to think I might have the solution...and then I'm back to the drawing board.

I'm going to be building a good for the tank hopefully in the near future. When I do I'm getting some different lights. Probably some T5's and get away from the LED's....much as I love they make the tank look
 
#68 ·
jonnyboy, good plans, but you still have to learn by experience. You know "overthinking?" Well, I think you're overdoing. You have to be patient and wait for the results to show in the plants, and try one thing at a time so you can find out what works and what doesn't. I'm not being critical and I'm trying to be constructive, to sort of set you in the right direction. I know it's frustrating when the plants aren't doing well, and you want to throw everything you've got at them. But especially in this particular endeavor, slow and steady, you know? I really hope you take this in a positive way.

Steven
 
#70 ·
This was after scraping glass and water change last night. The three longer sprouts on the rotala are the only thing that's grown in the last three weeks. Aside from the broad leaf on the left side of the tank. Rangeri and red melon swords are doing horrible....crypts haven't changed much basically ever. Ignore the baby tears....they're a failed attempt. I will put up more detailed pics tonight when I have time if anyone wants.
 

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#71 ·
Great picture! Just a couple of comments - the filter looks like it may be too small to circulate water around the tank, but that's not the problem. It might shed some light on the subject <ahem> if you looked up the light requirements of Rotala. It's doing well, so you will be able to see what intensity light you have. That's about it - none of the plants, that I can tell, have deficiencies.
 
#72 ·
Sorry, I'm a bit late to this thread and haven't read through the whole of it, but there doesn't seem to be much wrong with those plants. Low tech growth is always slow and sometimes very slow; your number one asset here is patience. Many of the plants you've chosen (the crypts and swords) have pretty low potential growth rates anyway, regardless of the conditions you provide.

If you want more plants, buy more plants. Then as long as they show stable, sustainable growth at any speed you shouldn't have any problems. A larger plant biomass will probably also help slow down your algae. Otos or shrimp would also be a good addition if you don't have any already.
 
#75 ·
Well the plants aren't too bad right now, but I also pulled off the bad leaves during cleanup....but compared to how they looked when I bought them....the swords look horrible! They're not getting better or worse for the last month or so.
Don't bother reading through the whole thing haha! Lots of basics covered pretty much
And I do want to get some more foreground plants in a couple weeks.
I have 4 Amano's and 2 Otto cats.
 
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