Planted Discus - Page 3 - The Planted Tank Forum

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post #31 of 213 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by discuspaul View Post
As you seem to know, play sand and pool filter sand are not at all the same thing. Play sand is much dirtier, has more dust and grit, and must be very well rinsed, many times before it clears up. It's also much finer grained and not nearly as dense as PFS, so it may become free-floating when disturbed, and can end up clogging your filter and impeller assembly.
It is also very easily siphoned up, so you can't do a proper vacuuming job with it.
Even PFS will get siphoned out if you to try to vacuum with simple siphon tubing. Get yourself a proper wide-mouthed vacuum tube - there are many good varieties available @ LFS's. The density of PFS will not allow it to get sucked up with a proper vac - it may float up into the vac tube an inch or two, and then tumble right back down. Play sand will get sucked up no matter what you use to vac.
I got confused too but he decided against play sand. I should have clarified, as stated, a normal gravel vac with work. I used the term siphon because many people call it just that. But yes, PFS Is better than play, never use play sand, gravel vac, and listen to discus paul, he knows what's going on.
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post #32 of 213 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 09:20 PM
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On a slightly different note here, Im not sure what you guys are saying but it sounds like a planted tank causes bad water quality? Isnt that a little off in reasoning? I have a heavily planted tank and it simply has the best most clear water ever, and as for dirty bottems, heck, anyone ever heard of corys? Thats how a friend of mine keeps his discus, heavy planted and corys. works wonders.
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post #33 of 213 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 09:38 PM
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On a slightly different note here, Im not sure what you guys are saying but it sounds like a planted tank causes bad water quality? Isnt that a little off in reasoning? I have a heavily planted tank and it simply has the best most clear water ever, and as for dirty bottems, heck, anyone ever heard of corys? Thats how a friend of mine keeps his discus, heavy planted and corys. works wonders.
Uh huh.. Seeing as you sound to have no experience with discus it doesn't seem reasonable you would be replying. Discus are messy eaters, they eat a ton, produce a ton of waste, and ruin their quality worse than plants could every fix.

Cories do not eat waste, that's common knowledge so all they will do is eat left over food. Which, will cause issues down the road as cories aren't meant to eat 3 times a day of heavy protein food like discus. You can't plant a tank enough to keep up with discus, it's been argued many times on other forums. I'm sure your friend has, you definitely can. But your fish will suffer in quality. They won't grow to be as large, they won't grow to have that great discus shape they should have. They'll suffer from diseases much easier, and run the risk of dying when maintenance is not kept up with. Having plants should not cause the owner to believe their water quality is better than it is. Water changes should still be often and in large amounts, unless this happens quality and fish will suffer. Beginners with discus think of all sorts of theories and ways to keep discus when it's been proven it works a certain way. If you are willing to work for it, you can make plants and discus work, it just isn't easy and isn't recommended for beginners.
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post #34 of 213 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 09:51 PM
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Ive kept fish with much the same motabolizem as discus and yes actually plants keep up very well, as for corys, i have over 2 dozen of different species and i assure you then eat everything they come across. Regular water changes is understandable but really Ive never seen any reason to do them more fequently then four days apart even with 20 mbuna in close quarters. Maybe with all the waterchanges and so on youve never let your tank fully mature and let it deal with excess ammonia and the like
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post #35 of 213 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 10:00 PM
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Mbuna are much more forgiving than discus. You don't understand what I'm saying, and that's okay. Just because they are similar in the amount they need to eat ect, doesn't mean they are close to the same fish.

Most fish are forgiving of water quality. You can let it get out of hand and they will survive, thrive. It's been proven with juvenile discus that if they are neglected, for even two - three days with no food, no water changes, you will not grow them to their potential. I'll assume you've heard of stunted fish, which is common with discus in planted tanks no matter how large the tank is. Water quality and therefor growth suffers.

You're comparing discus to fish in general and it just isn't true, there's reasons they are not for beginners.

I care about quality fish and quality advice, that's the only reason I'm even replying to you. If you've got no experience with the fish why even post..
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post #36 of 213 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 10:08 PM
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Uh huh.. Seeing as you sound to have no experience with discus it doesn't seem reasonable you would be replying. Discus are messy eaters, they eat a ton, produce a ton of waste, and ruin their quality worse than plants could every fix.

Cories do not eat waste, that's common knowledge so all they will do is eat left over food. Which, will cause issues down the road as cories aren't meant to eat 3 times a day of heavy protein food like discus. You can't plant a tank enough to keep up with discus, it's been argued many times on other forums. I'm sure your friend has, you definitely can. But your fish will suffer in quality. They won't grow to be as large, they won't grow to have that great discus shape they should have. They'll suffer from diseases much easier, and run the risk of dying when maintenance is not kept up with. Having plants should not cause the owner to believe their water quality is better than it is. Water changes should still be often and in large amounts, unless this happens quality and fish will suffer. Beginners with discus think of all sorts of theories and ways to keep discus when it's been proven it works a certain way. If you are willing to work for it, you can make plants and discus work, it just isn't easy and isn't recommended for beginners.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

And kribkeeper - you do appear to have a lot to learn about discus.
Ive have planted discus tanks with Cories for years, and I can tell you that Cories will not eat, or in any way dispose of, crud, detritus, decomposing plant matter, or fish feces, and that's what creates the problem when trying to keep discus successfully.
Planted tanks require a lot more clean-up work to rid the tank of those elements which can and do produce an unhealthy, unsafe environment
for discus - water quality is prime and that's what large, frequent wcs are all about if you want to keep discus alive & thriving.
Check out the simplydiscus.com forum - you'll quickly realize what we're talkng about.
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post #37 of 213 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 10:08 PM
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Er no I ment in the overall waste mbuna produce, its much the same, as far as I can tell from watching discus a lot. And Im not compareing discus to fish in general, Ive just found a lot of evidance that they arnt as hopelessly fragile as most people think, I mean I hate to keep useing 'my friend' as a refrance here but we had a 2 day poweroutage a few weeks ago and his tanks went from 84 to 59 degrees with no waterchanges or filters, two days. Doesnt that sort of defy the "rules" of discus? And he was keeping juvies too.

I dunno. Seems like a lot of overrated stuff about them.
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post #38 of 213 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by discuspaul View Post
Couldn't have said it better myself.

And kribkeeper - you do appear to have a lot to learn about discus.
Ive have planted discus tanks with Cories for years, and I can tell you that Cories will not eat, or in any way dispose of, crud, detritus, decomposing plant matter, or fish feces, and that's what creates the problem when trying to keep discus successfully.
Planted tanks require a lot more clean-up work to rid the tank of those elements which can and do produce an unhealthy, unsafe environment
for discus - water quality is prime and that's what large, frequent wcs are all about if you want to keep discus alive & thriving.
Check out the simplydiscus.com forum - you'll quickly realize what we're talkng about.
Thanks I have, Ive also found just as much, countering what you guys are saying. Maybe thats just what i WANT to think but theres a lot of hard evidence ether way. Tell you what, in severall weeks ill Pm you afer i get MY discus this sunday.
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post #39 of 213 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
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I don't agree with kribkeeper, it seems he has misunderstood how differ discus care is. I have kept a heavily stock reef tank with SPS for over a year now and I can tell you that I foresee more daily work(not expense) with my Discus. I have the sand, however now I have decided against it for the time being. Until I have mastered the upkeep routine. It will involve many things. Like where so I store 50 gallon of water for water changes? Rinsing my filter media weekly? Using an filter intake predicted sponge. Cleaning in and around plants. Feeding and nutrition lessons too.

Maybe in six months after I've mastered all that I think I may go to substrate if in not happy with BB.

I will have plants but I'll put them in pots or secure them to wood.




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post #40 of 213 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kribkeeper888 View Post
Er no I ment in the overall waste mbuna produce, its much the same, as far as I can tell from watching discus a lot. And Im not compareing discus to fish in general, Ive just found a lot of evidance that they arnt as hopelessly fragile as most people think, I mean I hate to keep useing 'my friend' as a refrance here but we had a 2 day poweroutage a few weeks ago and his tanks went from 84 to 59 degrees with no waterchanges or filters, two days. Doesnt that sort of defy the "rules" of discus? And he was keeping juvies too.

I dunno. Seems like a lot of overrated stuff about them.
Point taken, however there is a large difference in surviving and thriving.


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post #41 of 213 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 10:21 PM
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Point taken, however there is a large difference in surviving and thriving.


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True, Ive just heard a lot of "If it goes below 77 degrees they are going to die" or "if you forget a waterchange one day they are going to die" recently. I mean its not like if there is a single speck of dust they are gonna die on you.

Anyway I didnt ean to have SUCH an upset so im sorry but i think theres more then one way to keep a fish happy.
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post #42 of 213 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 10:33 PM
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Keeping juvies for two days without anything won't kill them.. You'll see suffered growth in the long run, not that you'll be able to tell. PM me in sixth months; hopefully they turn out well, but they won't grow to their potential in a planted tank. No chance to argue that. The guy above me is speaking proper, until you get the hang of it bare bottom is the right way to go, then add some substrate when they're grown, then start with plants.
Discus survive all sorts of conditions, but they will not thrive and grow to potential unless it's optimum. No hard feelings, I'm not offended. It's moreso I want to make sure to anyone else reading this thread you should not slack with discus. They are work.
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post #43 of 213 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kribkeeper888 View Post
Thanks I have, Ive also found just as much, countering what you guys are saying. Maybe thats just what i WANT to think but theres a lot of hard evidence ether way. Tell you what, in severall weeks ill Pm you afer i get MY discus this sunday.
Not to belabor this discussion, but I for one would very much like to see or hear of the 'countering' or 'hard' evidence that you're talking about.
I've never seen any, and I've been fish-keeping for over 50 years, and discus-keeping a lot of those years as well.
Please get your experience with discus under your belt first, before posting what you 'know', or think you know, about keeping discus.

I don't mean to be harsh, but after you get your discus this week and have kept them for a few weeks under the conditions you seem to think will work for you, you can bet I'll be one of the first to step up and try to help you deal with what will likely be your sick and ailing discus at that point.

If you're getting discus soon, krib-keeper, and you haven't already read it, I would urge you to have a read of my Beginner's Guide to Getting Started with Discus, located here as the first Sticky in the 'Fish' section.
And yes, you are correct about one thing, discus are hardier fish than many people believe, and are not difficult to keep, so long as you get healthy, good quality stock to begin with, and be prepared to work a little harder to religiously maintain higher quality tank and water conditions, on an ongoing basis right from the get-go.
Best of luck to you.
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post #44 of 213 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kribkeeper888 View Post
True, Ive just heard a lot of "If it goes below 77 degrees they are going to die" or "if you forget a waterchange one day they are going to die" recently. I mean its not like if there is a single speck of dust they are gonna die on you.

Anyway I didnt ean to have SUCH an upset so im sorry but i think theres more then one way to keep a fish happy.
I have never read those two statements, nor has anyone made a statement similar on this thread. I can see the point your are trying to make. I just think that more though goes into these fish than other freshwater fish.


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post #45 of 213 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by kribkeeper888 View Post
True, Ive just heard a lot of "If it goes below 77 degrees they are going to die" or "if you forget a waterchange one day they are going to die" recently. I mean its not like if there is a single speck of dust they are gonna die on you.

Anyway I didnt ean to have SUCH an upset so im sorry but i think theres more then one way to keep a fish happy.
The people who are saying things like that don't have a clue what they're talking about when it comes to discus.
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