The Planted Tank Forum banner

help with my ugly tank!

12K views 38 replies 16 participants last post by  moonshinetheslacker 
#1 · (Edited)
So here she is, one of the ugliest! I now have about half of the blue gravel removed, but it's a little stressful getting rid of it all. If that slate wall (about 2 inches thick) is sitting on a single piece of gravel, then the entire weight of the slate will be on a very small surface area, and I'm worried it will break the glass. Plus, I made it so it would be very tight fitting, and if I bump it too hard against the sides... well... the tank might shatter. So I have to work around the slate, and I almost broke the tank getting it in, so I don't want to tempt fate by removing it, and putting it back in later. So, finished rambling, on to the questions!

I want to put in a substrate that will actually help sustain life, that has nutrients and all that in it. What sort of substrate should I use for a low tech tank? Should I decide what kind of plants I am going to put in, before I decide on substrate, or the other way around? Also, if I put a new substrate in, lets say Amazonia, then will I deal with ammonia and nitrate/nitrite spikes? I don't have another aquarium to put my fish in while I replace the substrate, plus I have kuhli loaches which will be hiding under the rock wall, and therefore will HAVE to stay in the tank while I put new substrate in. And what kind of plants do you think would go well in front of, as well as on top of, the slate wall?

I'm sorry about the poor quality photo, I'm currently saving up for a DSLR, and should have one in a month or two, but until then, poor lighting, combined with a poor camera, and a poor photographer, doesn't make for the greatest of pictures, LOL! And in case you all can't tell, I am, by every definition of the word, a newbie to fish, aquariums, and plants, so ANY help would be beneficial.

By the way, the plants in there are some sort of duckweed (not sure which one) some grass that I pulled out of a pond near the north end of the chesapeake bay, and a piece of lucky bamboo. I'm not terribly attached to any of them, so they can all get replaced by new plants.

EDIT: Before pic



After pic:



Thanks for all the help!

P.S. All the dust/junk all over the rocks is due to a melted crypt. I have sort of poor waterflow through the tank due to the wall, so it's hard to get all that junk filtered out. If anyone decides to do a full slate wall background, I would recommend something that makes some current. That way all the dust and dead plant debris will get stirred up and sucked into the filter.
 
See less See more
2
#3 ·
I like your wall. Is there any way you could just leave the blue gravel under the wall area while replacing the rest with another color then just layering over the blue? It's hard to tell from the photo if that's possible or not.

Off the top of my head mosses, anubias, or java fern will grow on your slate.
 
#4 ·
Fahnell: yes, she is a ramirezi, but I'm not really looking for a blackwater style tank. I appreciate your reply though. Those tanks are very cool, just not really my thing.

Seadreamer: You know, as soon as I read your post I said DUH! Yeah, I certainly can leave just a little bit under the wall. In fact, do you by chance know of any aquarium safe clay I could put under there? If not, it's really no big deal, I can certainly leave the ugly blue gravel, and just cover it with something else. And thanks for the wall comment, I like it too. Even if it was/is a pain.

I was thinking of sticking a few pieces of fissidens fontanus in a few spots on the wall (not sure if you can tell, it's full of holes) and I'll look into anubias. I kind of wonder what would look good sitting in front of the wall. The only reason I built it, was because I don't like seeing all the wires and everything from the filter and heater behind my aquarium, nor am I a fan of the fake poster things that people put up as backgrounds.
 
#27 ·
Seadreamer: You know, as soon as I read your post I said DUH! Yeah, I certainly can leave just a little bit under the wall. In fact, do you by chance know of any aquarium safe clay I could put under there? If not, it's really no big deal, I can certainly leave the ugly blue gravel, and just cover it with something else.
Sorry. I forgot I responded here. :icon_redf Looks like you've moved on but, no, I don't know about aquarium-safe clay. It may exist. I'm no expert. :)

You might consider crypts for some low-light plantings. Lots to choose from.

As for growing moss near the surface, I've done it and had no problem. I think it was java moss. I had it tied to a piece of wood and hung from the top of the tank. It made a moss overhang, which was my intent. Anyway, it was about 2 inches from my lights (had a glass top) and thrived.
 
#6 ·
For substrate I recommend eco-complete. The bamboo will have a shorter life span if it is completely underwater. Since this is the low tech forum, I assume that you do not have very strong lights. In this case, you might want to try moss, java fern, or anubius. Attach them on driftwood. Have a lot of fun with the tank!!!!!
 
#7 ·
love the slate wall, great job. i would remove as much of the blue gravel as possible and i like flourish substrate available in brown, red, or black.agree with woldgang on the fern and moss. they are not buried and can be tucked into the spaces in the slate. one of the hardest things to create in a scape is height and depth. you already have a leg up because of the options with the slate wall. bamboo is not a true aquatic plant and will not live long submerged. one of the biggest things you need to watch for is many of the plants sold at the chains and even lfs are not true aquatic plants and will live for only a couple months submerged, best of luck.
 
#8 ·
I've been looking at anubias, and it does look like a great plant for this aquarium. I'm thinking about making a carpet of fissidens fontanus, and putting some anubias on one of the shelves that are sticking out of the wall. But I think something growing on the very top of the wall that could sort of drift down into the tank would look very good. So what kind of plant would have a drifting vine effect, which can tolerate very high light? (the top of the wall is about 3 inches from the hood light)
I'm tossing around the idea of putting in some driftwood, or instead some longer somewhat pointy rocks, sticking up out of the substrate, almost like a "cliffs of doom" out of the princess bride movie. As far as the driftwood goes, I could only use very small pieces, maybe get some manzanita branches, because the wall sits about 2 inches away from the back of the tank (for the HOB filter and heater to have room) plus it's another 2 inches thick, I only have about 8 inches from the front of the wall to the glass.
I assume it won't hurt my fish to replace the substrate then? Since nobody has commented on it... Also, are anubias and ferns my only options here? I think I need something a little taller to help tie everything together...
 
#9 ·
What light do you have over the tank? Light level is crucial to plant selection.

IMO you'll probably have better luck with the Fissidens on the wall rather than down as a carpet. It can collect lots of debris, and since you can't have any shrimp to help keep it clean (your Ram would eat them), I'd put it up on the wall where it's a little less likely to collect. Debris = algae, and mosses are especially prone to algae since they're relatively slow-growing.

I'd get some driftwood and attach the Anubias onto that. It would add a bit more depth to the aquascape, too.

Yes, you can switch out the substrate without harming the fish- as long as you're careful to do it in a way that minimizes disturbance to the tank's cycle. Do a thorough gravel vacuuming just before breaking down the tank, and collect as much mulm (debris) as possible. Pour off most of the excess water, and then lay the mulm down underneath the new substrate. The mulm is full of N-bacteria so can really help to get the new substrate cycled and minimize ammonia and nitrite spikes.

Reseve about 50% of the tank's water to put back in the tank, to help reduce the risk of water parameter shifts.

Also, be sure not to clean your filter for a few weeks before and after the substrate swap.
 
#10 ·
Lauralee: I have a singe 15 watt bulb, and it's a 10 gallon tank. The slate wall probably takes up about 2 gallons worth of water, and most light doesn't reach behind the wall. Mainly just to the very top, and the front of the tank.
Do you think mineralized topsoil would do well in this tank? Oh, and Laura, I'm pretty sure I've read my way through all of your tank builds at one point or another (I've been a lurker for a while) And I have to say, great job on all your tanks, and I'm totally jealous of your amazonian fishing trip!
 
#11 ·
LOL you've done alot of reading! :hihi: But thanks!

Yes, I think mineralized soil would work well. Cap it with whatever you want.

You might like Pennywort (Hydocoytle leucocephala) for the "vine" you're talking about?

Marselia minuta would make a nice carpet.

Rotala rotundifolia would be a good stem, planted directly under the light.
 
#12 ·
So here's what I'm thinking, I already have some topsoil that I just need to dry out and screen a few times so that I have everything needed for substrate. I'll just get some kind of smooth white sand for the topping. Then,

Carpet: Marselia minuta (thanks Laura! this stuff looks great, where can I get it?)

long stem going from bottom to top on left side: Echinodorus 'vesuvius'

Mosses for cracks, and top of slate wall (which sits about an inch under the surface of the water, and 4 inches from the light): Taxiphyllum alternans or maybe HC for topping

a plant tied to a slate shelf on the right: Anubias barteri 'Nana'

But I'm thinking about some sort of centerpiece... should I just leav the slate as the centerpiece, and have it basically "framed" by plants? I was thinking something kind of bushy, and hopefully colorful, like a red or purple plant, right in the center in the front. What do y'all think?

P.S. hopefully in another month I'll have my DSLR, and be able to get a decent shot of the tank!
 
#13 ·
Your slate wall is awesome! great job with it. I really think that should be your main focus on the tank. You could also consider a small piece of driftwood. I could see this tank with mosses and java fern on the slate wall with some sort of larger stemed plant (like an anubais) on the left side and a small piece of driftwood with some mosses/java fern on it on the right side. The rest of the plants would go in like you were thinking framing up the slate wall.

I wouldn't consider this the ugliest tank at all. It's got a lot of potential and you seem to have the knowledge to get it done.
 
#14 ·
Thank you so much for your comment on my slate wall, Aquastudent! I like the backgrounds you did on your 10 gallon as well. And, even though I copied and pasted the latin names of the plants that I saw on here and said "ooh... pretty..." doesn't mean that I have the knowledge to get it done, but thanks for your faith!! :)
I think I'll start playing with the dirt either tomorrow night, or friday night (no life, I know) and I'll start getting things together for the substrate. Once I have that all done, I'll get to the fun part, and order some plants.
Next time I'm at a pet store, I'll look at the driftwood... I'm just having a hard time picturing how it would look. Also, I really wish I could show you guys how this thing looks in person. There are a few shelves in the wall as well, so it's not just a flat wall. I'm also thinking that I will try to eliminate all the duckweed that's in there as well... it's definitely the plant you learn to hate!
 
#18 ·
I actually like the duckweed... kinda... It's a small pain, but I think it looks good when there are just a few leaves floating around. I do weekly water changes, and just take out a couple of handfulls. and after about three days, the stuff explodes! And a few days after that, comes another water change. It's only a little more maintenance, and since I'm new to planted tanks, I still like it... sort of... lol. Only trouble is, once I plant some carpet, in an already low light tank, I just don't think anything will survive with the duckweed blocking the little light that I do have. BTW, love the name! First time I heard the song was when I was watching yellow submarine. Great music video!
 
#19 ·
Alright, so I did a water change yesterday, and picked up a couple things for the mineralized topsoil. I couldn't find muriate of potash anywhere, but I discovered that all it is, is potassium chloride. Which is used in some types of ice melt, some types of water softeners, and is the main ingredient in NOSALT (a salt substitute) So I picked up some nosalt, as it was the only potassium chloride I could find. I also got some cork (more on that later) and some HC from my LFS.

I also had a hard time finding "pottery clay" I had some clay at my house, but it's grey, not red. And since you need the clay for iron, which I assume is the reason the clay is red in the first place, the clay I have probably won't work. So I did a little brainstorming, and vuala!! I have steel wool! So I grabbed some steel wool, put it in a tupperware container, filled it with tap water, and by the time the water evaporates, the wool should pretty much be in powder form. It's been two days, and there is alot of iron oxide in the bottom of the tupperware. Also, just to make sure that there will be iron in the tank for a long time, I wadded up little balls of steel wool, and encapsulated them in clay. The clay isn't waterproof, so the steel wool should oxidize inside the little balls, and slowly leach the iron into the dirt. I'm guessing they will last for years this way, as long as the clay doesn't break down too quickly.

With the cork, I made a small planter on the very top of my slate wall (pics to come) And I made a very tiny amount of mineralized topsoil. I found out from an old post by Tom Barr that you can mineralize topsoil by boiling it for about 10 minutes. Fortunately I have a loving wife who didn't mind me boiling dirt in her pots.:icon_bigg So I boiled my dirt, mixed in a little nosalt, and some of the steel wool water, and poured it into the planter on the wall. It was probably only about 4 or 5 tablespoons. Then I planted the HC in it. So the HC is sitting about 3 inches away from the 15 watt light, under 3/4 of an inch of water. I think this should be plenty of light for it.

The reason for the cork is because I've seen people grow HC emmersed in ripariums where cork was used as a planter. The HC will attach to the cork pretty firmly, so... hopefully the HC will grow out of the planter, and attach itself to the cork, covering the entire top of the wall with a nice, green, lush, carpet.

I'll post some pics of the planter, and steel wool clay balls later. Hopefully tonight, if I don't get too busy.
 
#22 ·
Alright, so I did a water change yesterday, and picked up a couple things for the mineralized topsoil. I couldn't find muriate of potash anywhere, but I discovered that all it is, is potassium chloride. Which is used in some types of ice melt, some types of water softeners, and is the main ingredient in NOSALT (a salt substitute) So I picked up some nosalt, as it was the only potassium chloride I could find. I also got some cork (more on that later) and some HC from my LFS.

I also had a hard time finding "pottery clay" I had some clay at my house, but it's grey, not red. And since you need the clay for iron, which I assume is the reason the clay is red in the first place, the clay I have probably won't work. So I did a little brainstorming, and vuala!! I have steel wool! So I grabbed some steel wool, put it in a tupperware container, filled it with tap water, and by the time the water evaporates, the wool should pretty much be in powder form. It's been two days, and there is alot of iron oxide in the bottom of the tupperware. Also, just to make sure that there will be iron in the tank for a long time, I wadded up little balls of steel wool, and encapsulated them in clay. The clay isn't waterproof, so the steel wool should oxidize inside the little balls, and slowly leach the iron into the dirt. I'm guessing they will last for years this way, as long as the clay doesn't break down too quickly.

With the cork, I made a small planter on the very top of my slate wall (pics to come) And I made a very tiny amount of mineralized topsoil. I found out from an old post by Tom Barr that you can mineralize topsoil by boiling it for about 10 minutes. Fortunately I have a loving wife who didn't mind me boiling dirt in her pots.:icon_bigg So I boiled my dirt, mixed in a little nosalt, and some of the steel wool water, and poured it into the planter on the wall. It was probably only about 4 or 5 tablespoons. Then I planted the HC in it. So the HC is sitting about 3 inches away from the 15 watt light, under 3/4 of an inch of water. I think this should be plenty of light for it.

The reason for the cork is because I've seen people grow HC emmersed in ripariums where cork was used as a planter. The HC will attach to the cork pretty firmly, so... hopefully the HC will grow out of the planter, and attach itself to the cork, covering the entire top of the wall with a nice, green, lush, carpet.

I'll post some pics of the planter, and steel wool clay balls later. Hopefully tonight, if I don't get too busy.
That's what I call some nifty DIY thinking! Please keep us updated on how all your substitutions seem to work out for you?
 
#23 ·
With regard to the lucky bamboo; I've had the lucky bamboo in there for over six months now, and it has done perfectly fine. A little algae growth on it, but that's about it. I do know that supposedly lucky bamboo will die if it is totally submerged. Right now I do have it potted as a regular houseplant on the window sill. Once the mineralized topsoil goes in, the bamboo will also go back in. I would assume that if you take the lucky bamboo out every few months, and plant it for a week or two, it would probably live just fine in the aquarium. The reason this stuff dies when it's totally submerged is because it gets water logged and rots. So, as long as it gets to dry out every few months, I figure it will be fine. Also, it only cost me 3 bucks. So if it dies, I'm not too terribly concerned about it.

Laura, I will certainly keep you posted on how the mineralized topsoil does. I'm a little worried about all the substitutions that I'm using, but then again, if nobody ever took a chance, we probably would have never invented the wheel. So if everything thrives, and nothing dies, then most people will think it's quite a bit easier then previously suspected to do this.

I figure most people don't want to use MTS, or can't for various reasons. Like, not having a yard to dry soil in. Or don't have the time to keep wetting and drying for several weeks, or just can't seem to find the proper clay, or dolomite, or potash. So I would imagine a few more people will do this, as long as everything works out well... and I'm certainly hoping it does!

Does anyone know if I can use tums instead of dolomite? Their main ingredient is calcium carbonate, just like dolomite, but it doesn't have the magnesium that dolomite does. The only thing that looks like it might actually hurt the plants in tums would be the Sodium Polyphosphate... what effect would have have on the plants or fish? I have some tums laying around, along with some magnesium supplements. I'm guessing that they would work..? Help?:icon_conf
 
#25 ·
I stopped by petsmart today, as I had a little bit of time on my hands (very rare) and saw some stuff in the reptile section called "calcium sand" made of calcium carbonate. Anyone know about this stuff? I called the manufacturer to ask them a question, and the guy read to me exactly what was on the back of the bag, and said that's all the info he had.
 
#31 ·
My wife has had a variety of reptiles. From what I gather talking to her, the main issue with the calcium sand is that the critters can swallow bits of it while feeding, which can potentially become impacted in their intestines causing nastiness.

I know that may not clarify things in this scenario as far as water quality goes, but thought I would just throw that out there.
 
#28 ·
Here's a couple pics of the planter I did on the top of the wall









Also, some pics of the substrate science experiment that's taking over my kitchen counter, lol!





There's the steel wool, the encapsulated steel wool, the small amount of substrate I made for the HC, and a pot of boiling dirt. I threw the duckweed in there because DEATH TO DUCKWEED! hehe... I figured boiling it for 15 minutes would make me feel better. And it did. :icon_twis

Oh, and Seadreamer, I just wish there were a book entitled "Crypts, sizes, and needs" It would make things a bit easier, that's for sure!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top