LED = washed out color? - Page 3 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #31 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-01-2013, 01:05 AM
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I'm happy with my Ray2. I think the colors look great.

My only issue with it is some red plants struggle to turn red under it. They grow well with the PAR, they just don't turn the color that they do under T5HO or MH.

I have a single Ray2 over my 72 and I get great growth.
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post #32 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-01-2013, 01:21 AM Thread Starter
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LED = washed out color?

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Originally Posted by BriDroid View Post
I'm happy with my Ray2. I think the colors look great.

My only issue with it is some red plants struggle to turn red under it. They grow well with the PAR, they just don't turn the color that they do under T5HO or MH.

I have a single Ray2 over my 72 and I get great growth.
Will dosing extra iron not help?


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post #33 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-01-2013, 01:48 AM
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White LEDs are just a blue LED, with typically a single phosphor that converts some of the blue to other colors. All their spectral distributions look similar to this:



There is a single sharp peak for blue, since that's the true LED color shining through, but the phosphor emission is smooth. So there's little color enhancement, especially for reds, which are particularly weak. You can move to a lower K rating and get more red, but then you get more yellow too, and that doesn't make anything look good.

On the other hand, T5's can use multiple phosphors, and be engineered for any number of color-enhancing peaks, like the infamous DD Giesemann Midday:



This is one of the major reasons I built a dimmable T5HO fixture for my largest and showiest tank, instead of LEDs. I really wanted to bring out the colors, and I don't think LEDs can do that without some trial and error, which would be expensive on a fixture this size. Eventually I'll play with LEDs on smaller tanks. I expect to come really close to a good T5, it'll take some red LEDs mixed in with the white, maybe some other colors too, and possibly some diffusion to avoid multicolored shadows.

Last edited by DarkCobra; 03-01-2013 at 02:06 AM. Reason: Added info
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post #34 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-01-2013, 03:31 AM
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I've run cfls with a gieseman-type pink plant bulb mixed with a daylight bulb. I find daylight colors from any single daylight source a "washout." So I switched one of my lights to a buildmyled planted tank spectrum. They devote space to blue and red leds and I find that it looks really good...absolutely no washout of reds, etc. Their fixtures are way more expensive than finnex but the result to my eye is certainly worthwhile. For me, that's the led solution if you want warm color-popping light without compromises. YMMV.

Last edited by veryzer; 03-01-2013 at 03:32 AM. Reason: x
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post #35 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-01-2013, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BriDroid View Post
I'm happy with my Ray2. I think the colors look great.

My only issue with it is some red plants struggle to turn red under it. They grow well with the PAR, they just don't turn the color that they do under T5HO or MH.

I have a single Ray2 over my 72 and I get great growth.

My understanding is some plants turn red as a protective measure against too much light.
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post #36 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-01-2013, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCobra View Post
White LEDs are just a blue LED, with typically a single phosphor that converts some of the blue to other colors. All their spectral distributions look similar to this:



There is a single sharp peak for blue, since that's the true LED color shining through, but the phosphor emission is smooth. So there's little color enhancement, especially for reds, which are particularly weak. You can move to a lower K rating and get more red, but then you get more yellow too, and that doesn't make anything look good.

On the other hand, T5's can use multiple phosphors, and be engineered for any number of color-enhancing peaks, like the infamous DD Giesemann Midday:



This is one of the major reasons I built a dimmable T5HO fixture for my largest and showiest tank, instead of LEDs. I really wanted to bring out the colors, and I don't think LEDs can do that without some trial and error, which would be expensive on a fixture this size. Eventually I'll play with LEDs on smaller tanks. I expect to come really close to a good T5, it'll take some red LEDs mixed in with the white, maybe some other colors too, and possibly some diffusion to avoid multicolored shadows.
Look through this thread New Lighting for a 150 gallon- 6 ft open top tank.-UPDATED! GROWTH PICS! it will address all of the concerns you have. also look at the links within the thread. with leds you can do even better than a T5.

Last edited by Steve001; 03-01-2013 at 12:18 PM. Reason: x
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post #37 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-01-2013, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
Look through this thread New Lighting for a 150 gallon- 6 ft open top tank.-UPDATED! GROWTH PICS! it will address all of the concerns you have. also look at the links within the thread. with leds you can do even better than a T5.
Yeah, but that is a lot of different colored LEDs, LOL! Would be a very expensive and hard to build fixture.

Plus note that high CRI isn't necessarily good. I did try some 97CRI fluorescents that everyone raved about on photography forums once. And I was completely unimpressed, even after a month to let my eyes and the plants adapt. Even common low CRI 6,500K bulbs looked better.

So I save the high CRI bulbs for photography and Stef's art area. And use bulbs in tanks that look best to me, even if they exaggerate colors and have horrible CRI.
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post #38 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-02-2013, 02:29 AM
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Yeah, but that is a lot of different colored LEDs, LOL! Would be a very expensive and hard to build fixture.

Plus note that high CRI isn't necessarily good. I did try some 97CRI fluorescents that everyone raved about on photography forums once. And I was completely unimpressed, even after a month to let my eyes and the plants adapt. Even common low CRI 6,500K bulbs looked better.

So I save the high CRI bulbs for photography and Stef's art area. And use bulbs in tanks that look best to me, even if they exaggerate colors and have horrible CRI.
A 97 CRI at what color temperature ?

I have a CFL rated at a CRI of 93 and K temp of 5500 and it looks fine. I've seen florescent bulbs rated as high as 98 but the catch is they are either a very high K temp or low. That's because it's much easier to match sunlight at either the end of the day or near the beginning. Don't poo poo an idea because you think it's silly when in fact it's being done with success.

If you are not a diy'er then it would be hard. On the other hand... it wouldn't.

Leds are expensive that a fact.
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post #39 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-02-2013, 02:50 AM
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I like the idea of multiple LEDs. You could easily imagine a control unit that lets you alter the spectral mix. Like knobs to adjust the CYM or RGB if you will. A small microprocessor and you can simulate the changing colour gamut of the day. With the rate of technical progress on LEDs I guess it wont be long before we start seeing this type of fitting.
It would be way cool.


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post #40 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-02-2013, 03:18 AM
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A 97 CRI at what color temperature ?
I looked it back up, I was in error. Philips TL950, 5000K 98CRI. I didn't mind the extra yellow, it just didn't make anything "pop". I currently have some 6500K 90CRI bulbs in one tank, it looks pretty good. But it's still nothing like the DD Giesemann combo, which makes colors "pop" like nothing else I've seen.

Quote:
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Don't poo poo an idea because you think it's silly when in fact it's being done with success.
I'm sorry if you can't distinguish between my personal preference to accentuate certain colors over perfect realism, and "poo pooing" your idea.
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post #41 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-02-2013, 03:39 AM
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LED = washed out color?

I will take better looking colors than absolutely accurate representation any day of the week.


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post #42 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-02-2013, 04:20 AM
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I will take better looking colors than absolutely accurate representation any day of the week.


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Agreed!
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post #43 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-02-2013, 04:34 AM Thread Starter
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LED = washed out color?

Anyone know of a video showing of a finnex light?


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post #44 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-02-2013, 01:53 PM
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I will take better looking colors than absolutely accurate representation any day of the week.


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But you get better looking colors if you have a light source that produces color that are reflected instead of absorbed. For example in a tank you have Rotala Micranthemum that looks like this Notice not only do you see a shade of red but there's also a bit of orange and perhaps yellow. If you don't have those colors in the light source those colors in the plant won't be reflected and the plant won't be visually at it's best. That's the reason under an led light at 6500 K produces washed reddish-red plant colors whereas greens being closer to the predominant blue output look pretty good.

BTW, You could incorporate an led that emits at 405nm and possibly get some flourescence. You check this easily with a violet laser pointer. Green plants generally fluoresce magenta.
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post #45 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-02-2013, 03:08 PM
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