LED Lighting Compendium - Page 5 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #61 of 319 (permalink) Old 01-22-2012, 07:36 AM
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Couple members have asked me about the Spectral Dash that I put on Beta Test Program

The Product Page is here
The Par Data Charts are here
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post #62 of 319 (permalink) Old 01-22-2012, 07:55 AM Thread Starter
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Couple members have asked me about the Spectral Dash that I put on Beta Test Program

The Product Page is here
The Par Data Charts are here
I will add it once it's out of beta and is a purchasable product, unless it is already and I'm missing something? Let me know.

LED Lighting Compendium
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Originally Posted by Ludwig van Beethoven
Don't only practice your art, but force your way into it's secrets, for it and knowledge can raise men to the divine.
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post #63 of 319 (permalink) Old 01-22-2012, 08:06 AM
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I will add it once it's out of beta and is a purchasable product, unless it is already and I'm missing something? Let me know.
You and I never sleep. LOL
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post #64 of 319 (permalink) Old 01-22-2012, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
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Haha, yeah. I'm up till 5am nearly every night researching crap and doing math for college, because my classes dont start until 1pm. Since my mind doesnt work well in the mornings, I just stay up late

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludwig van Beethoven
Don't only practice your art, but force your way into it's secrets, for it and knowledge can raise men to the divine.
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post #65 of 319 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 08:19 PM
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Any estimations on the ECOXOTIC "Ecopico" arm light?....was curious as to what the PAR readings may be for the light set up with three strips...I.E.
8x12000k white led's
1x453nm blue led.

i have this running over a 12x12x12 cube with 2 inches of substrate...the strip sits roughly 2 inches above water level.

I'm wondering if i need to add another arm, or if i would be fine with what i have for high light plants.
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post #66 of 319 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
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Any estimations on the ECOXOTIC "Ecopico" arm light?....was curious as to what the PAR readings may be for the light set up with three strips...I.E.
8x12000k white led's
1x453nm blue led.

i have this running over a 12x12x12 cube with 2 inches of substrate...the strip sits roughly 2 inches above water level.

I'm wondering if i need to add another arm, or if i would be fine with what i have for high light plants.
You should be in the medium/high range with three strips at that depth. This is just an estimate based on my experiences with the panorama fixture though, which appear to use the same LEDs. A single panorama with 9 white emmiters and 3 blue emmiters provides around 70 par at the substrate for me, same depth as yours, hung 4 inches up. I would assume 9 emmiters on your fixture would provide roughly the same for your setup as well.

LED Lighting Compendium
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludwig van Beethoven
Don't only practice your art, but force your way into it's secrets, for it and knowledge can raise men to the divine.
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post #67 of 319 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 11:29 PM
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Just because plants are green doesn't mean they reflect all of the green parts of the light spectrum. It means they reflect more green than red, primarily, and blue secondarily. Another reason plants look green is that our eyes are very sensitive to green, but not at all sensitive to red. But, plants absorb all parts of the spectrum to some extent. Most LEDs don't have the very high spikes in output that we see with fluorescent lights. The ones I have seen have a peak, for sure, but it is a broad one, and there is still a lot of light emitted that isn't in that peak.

Until we know how much PAR we are getting with various lights in various configurations it makes little sense to try to complicate matters by also worrying about PUR. PUR was of much more importance when it was hard to get enough light to grow plants, and anything that would increase the amount of usable light we were getting from a light fixture was something good to pursue. Now, the biggest lighting problem we have is having way more light (PAR) than we can easily use on our tanks. So PUR becomes much less relevant.

I find the collecting of PAR data for various manufactured LED light fixtures very useful, and I hope we can expand it eventually to include all such lights that are available. Let's not complicate it.

I'm a little confused. I see a lot of reefers and lighting companies use PUR for LED comparison. Not saying it's right, just an observation. TMC, for example, boasts it's PUR ratings, and they seem to be regarded as one of the best manufacturers. At least they've paid rights to use the most advanced patents. They don't score very high on the PAR values, based on this thread.


Are you suggesting that because LEDs emit a broad, even spectrum, any light in the green range which is not utilized does not weigh heavily on the PUR rating as say a fluorescent light which spikes in the green? I think I understand the logic, but it may be swaying results more than "nominally."
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post #68 of 319 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 12:26 AM
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I'm a little confused. I see a lot of reefers and lighting companies use PUR for LED comparison. Not saying it's right, just an observation. TMC, for example, boasts it's PUR ratings, and they seem to be regarded as one of the best manufacturers. At least they've paid rights to use the most advanced patents. They don't score very high on the PAR values, based on this thread.


Are you suggesting that because LEDs emit a broad, even spectrum, any light in the green range which is not utilized does not weigh heavily on the PUR rating as say a fluorescent light which spikes in the green? I think I understand the logic, but it may be swaying results more than "nominally."
I think they are arguing that they don't have a way of testing PUR, so that aren't considering it. I would tend to lean towards the spectrum of light being critical, so I'd love to see more PUR information. I suggested possibly using various photographic filters to try to tease out this information (if in a very crude way).

Marineland 26 bow front: https://youtu.be/nuag1sUuAz8

40 gallon breeder (and 20 gallon long): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ta07C0y0nk
10 gallon with PAR30 LED: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rbms5asKmA
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post #69 of 319 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 01:05 AM Thread Starter
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LEDs don't emit a broad, even spectrum. They emit fairly spiky spectrums, and only emit visible wavelengths. this is unlike MH and flourescent, which emit lots of ultraviolet and infrared.

LED spectrum analysis is fairly well documented in post #2, click the link in there to see.

LED Lighting Compendium
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludwig van Beethoven
Don't only practice your art, but force your way into it's secrets, for it and knowledge can raise men to the divine.
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post #70 of 319 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 01:16 AM
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LEDs don't emit a broad, even spectrum. They emit fairly spiky spectrums, and only emit visible wavelengths. this is unlike MH and flourescent, which emit lots of ultraviolet and infrared.

LED spectrum analysis is fairly well documented in post #2, click the link in there to see.
Your post is what got me thinking about this. If we could filter out/block light in the 550 nm to 625 nm range, we might get more interesting information. Of course, this would mean that we would actually have to have the lights being tested, as well as a PAR meter, and some form of filtering to block that range of wavelengths.

Marineland 26 bow front: https://youtu.be/nuag1sUuAz8

40 gallon breeder (and 20 gallon long): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ta07C0y0nk
10 gallon with PAR30 LED: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rbms5asKmA
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post #71 of 319 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by samamorgan View Post
LEDs don't emit a broad, even spectrum. They emit fairly spiky spectrums, and only emit visible wavelengths. this is unlike MH and flourescent, which emit lots of ultraviolet and infrared.

LED spectrum analysis is fairly well documented in post #2, click the link in there to see.
Fluorescent lights don't emit ultraviolet. The glass tube stops any ultraviolet emissions, and the phosphors convert UV to visible light. (That's why the phosphors are there.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffman View Post
I'm a little confused. I see a lot of reefers and lighting companies use PUR for LED comparison. Not saying it's right, just an observation. TMC, for example, boasts it's PUR ratings, and they seem to be regarded as one of the best manufacturers. At least they've paid rights to use the most advanced patents. They don't score very high on the PAR values, based on this thread.


Are you suggesting that because LEDs emit a broad, even spectrum, any light in the green range which is not utilized does not weigh heavily on the PUR rating as say a fluorescent light which spikes in the green? I think I understand the logic, but it may be swaying results more than "nominally."
All I am saying is that it is a mistake to assume that green plants mean that no green light is being absorbed by the plants. Plants do use green light, just not as well as they use red and blue. Our eyes are not very good for seeing red light, but very good for seeing green light, so whatever green light is reflected by the leaves looks brighter than it really is on an absolute scale. Or, perhaps I could say, "don't believe your lying eyes!".

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post #72 of 319 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 01:52 AM
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Fluorescent lights don't emit ultraviolet. The glass tube stops any ultraviolet emissions, and the phosphors convert UV to visible light. (That's why the phosphors are there.)



All I am saying is that it is a mistake to assume that green plants mean that no green light is being absorbed by the plants. Plants do use green light, just not as well as they use red and blue. Our eyes are not very good for seeing red light, but very good for seeing green light, so whatever green light is reflected by the leaves looks brighter than it really is on an absolute scale. Or, perhaps I could say, "don't believe your lying eyes!".
There doesn't seem to be much going on in the 525 nm to 625 nm range:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorophyll
http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/...BioBookPS.html

Marineland 26 bow front: https://youtu.be/nuag1sUuAz8

40 gallon breeder (and 20 gallon long): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ta07C0y0nk
10 gallon with PAR30 LED: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rbms5asKmA
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post #73 of 319 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 04:09 AM Thread Starter
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Our eyes are not very good for seeing red light, but very good for seeing green light, so whatever green light is reflected by the leaves looks brighter than it really is on an absolute scale. Or, perhaps I could say, "don't believe your lying eyes!".
Hence why green dot weapon sights are starting to become more of a standard than red, easier to see in most conditions.

Also, flourescent lights do emit UV, in small amounts. Even LEDs do, but its so sicnificantly lower than everything else it might aswell not be considered.

LED Lighting Compendium
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludwig van Beethoven
Don't only practice your art, but force your way into it's secrets, for it and knowledge can raise men to the divine.
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post #74 of 319 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 04:24 PM
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Also, flourescent lights do emit UV, in small amounts. Even LEDs do, but its so sicnificantly lower than everything else it might aswell not be considered.
Yes, you are right. It is a very tiny amount of UV.

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post #75 of 319 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 04:50 PM
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Would having 2 sets of LED fixtures double the PAR value like it does for T5HO?

I have 2 of the Marineland Double Brights on my 18" high tank and wonder where I am at for light levels?
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