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post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 02:36 AM Thread Starter
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T5ho

Why are people no longer using T5HOs? The light output outweighs the increased energy consumption along with LEDs that compare light intesity wise are much more expensive.
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post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 02:44 AM
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I have read of many who think t5ho is still better than LED's and refuse to change until the technology gets better but I assume its because of the power, bulb replacement and possibly cost?

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post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Troy. View Post
Why are people no longer using T5HOs? The light output outweighs the increased energy consumption along with LEDs that compare light intesity wise are much more expensive.
Costs are close to parity.. Mostly due the the better geometry of the LED's.
no mercury
ss lighting is easily dimmed and controlled.
lot less fragile.

As industry moves to LED's Tube market shrinks.

For $140 you get 10,400 "directed" lumens.
https://www.amazon.com/Beamswork-FSP...ords=beamswork
Easily dimmed by adding a $3 PWM dimmer
Equiv to at least a 2 tube T5ho fixture..assuming 90L/W typical..and probably "effectively" a 3 tube.
4 tube equiv. if reflectors are not optimum.
Plenty of studies show LEd's have a 1:2 W/W Par/Par advantage over tubes.
Cost isn't outrageously more..unless you go w/ shoplights/hort stuff.. and then I could go w/ cheap LED floods..

Again LED and tubes are reaching parity..EXCEPT in the larger size tanks..

One other thing.. sizing.. 2' and 4' are still not much of a problem.. any other sizes are getting slim in tubes as to variety..
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post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 04:06 AM
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Serious folks still use T5HO because you simply cannot get the power AND the color from an led without spending a fortune. If its even possible

At least when it comes to lighting bigger tanks. Im not talking about a 20 long.

Also the popularity of nature scapes with mostly green plants makes color rendition somewhat less important. LEDs are fine for those.
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post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by burr740 View Post
Serious folks still use T5HO because you simply cannot get the power AND the color from an led without spending a fortune. If its even possible

At least when it comes to lighting bigger tanks. Im not talking about a 20 long.

Also the popularity of nature scapes with mostly green plants makes color rendition somewhat less important. LEDs are fine for those.
My situation is that I have a 75 gallon tank that im planning on planting. I used the beamworks led mentioned above on a 55 gallon and was not getting nearly enough PAR. In your oppinion would you say a t5ho would be the best route for my scenario?
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post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 11:09 AM
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True guru's will tell you that 50 PAR at the substrate will grow any of the over 400 species of aquatic plant's.
Anymore light will just make getting CO2 dialed in correctly mandatory/possibly more difficult.(along with nutrient's.)
Why try and run everything at eleven when less light can achieve maybe a bit slower growth,but less problem's associated with too much light energy for available CO2.
I think two 54 watt T5HO bulb's over 75 gal will make CO2 injection a must.
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post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 11:30 AM
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My T5HO fixtures got really hot, used more electricity than LEDs, burned out ballasts, and needed bulb replacements. They did make the plants pearl nicely, but I do like the slimmer LED fixtures. I relate this issue to photography. At one time, 35mm cameras were the best thing going. Digital cameras came out, but they were expensive and not as good initially. Over time, digital cameras eventually became cheaper, more versatile, and sought after.


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post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 12:23 PM
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I was thinking about changing my T5HO to LED, but with 345l tank it's just too expensive. 4x39W T5HO with ballasts and everything needed to light them up (no hood though, I had it before) costed me around 100$. When I started calculating the costs for LEDs that would give the same light AND colour... Maybe 250$ was a starting point. Another thing - lot of work, I love playing with things like that, but I don't have unlimited time and mounting those T5HO took 0,5h, few screws and that's all, LEDs would be a long expensive project.


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- 120x48x60 cm
Nano playground - 30x30x30 cm + 30x30x20 cm (working on it!)
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post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy. View Post
Why are people no longer using T5HOs? The light output outweighs the increased energy consumption along with LEDs that compare light intesity wise are much more expensive.
I think your premise is wrong. There are still a few people using T5HO. I am one of them.

I think it really all depends on what your goals are and the size of the tank. For low or medium light on small tanks, LED should be fine.

For larger deeper tanks, it would take multiple fixtures, and a large pocketful of cash, to get to high lighting.

If you are a high light tank, color rendition is also important. Most LED's are still not there yet.

So for me, until they come out with an LED that can do it all at a reasonable price, I'll stay old school with my T5H0.
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post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Troy. View Post
My situation is that I have a 75 gallon tank that im planning on planting. I used the beamworks led mentioned above on a 55 gallon and was not getting nearly enough PAR. In your oppinion would you say a t5ho would be the best route for my scenario?
Well it all depends on your goals for the tank, your experience level, and what kind of plants you want to keep.

Reflectors make a big difference on fluorescents. Lights that have individual reflectors for each bulb are a lot brighter than ones that use a single reflector for all the bulbs.

Assuming you get a unit with good reflectors, a four bulb unit will need to be raised 12"-16" above the surface of a 75 gal, else it'll be way too much light.

With the fixture just hanging in mid air, a foot or two above the tank, there's going to be a lot of light spilling out into the room, and into your eyes. Some folks dont mind this. I do, which is why I use ancillary panels across the front of all my tanks. So that is something to consider as well.

I had a four bulb unit on a 75, about 9" above the surface. Par at the sub around 120. Which is way too much for most folks, and way more than any plant needs.

Currently have this light about 6" above a 50 gal, which is a short 55. Par at the sub around 90. That's still high light but a lot more manageable.

The more light you have, the faster everything moves. Both good things and bad. If this is your first time with high light, 60-70 par would be a good range to shoot for. That's plenty for most anything, and will be a lot more manageable than higher levels.

If you go with T5HOs, you'll probably want a four bulb unit to have good coverage front to back, and more bulb options. Use one or two 6500Ks and the rest red/pink types.

Just plan on raising the light a good bit off the surface, 12" -16" like I said before. (Id start at 16")

And it should go without saying that CO2 is a must.

Here's a thread on bulbs and a few journal links to folks using T5HOs. Might give you some additional food for thought.

A Thread For T5HO Bulb Comparisons

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12...6-15-a-19.html

Clint's 75 Gallon. High Tech Project Update 5/5/17


My old 75 which started out with a two bulb unit, then switched to a four bulb around page 6 I think - A 75 Gallon Journey ->

My current 120 with a six bulb unit - http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12...freestyle.html




Last edited by burr740; 06-19-2017 at 03:28 PM. Reason: .
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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 05:55 PM
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I had a four bulb unit on a 75, about 9" above the surface. Par at the sub around 120.
not discussing color ATM (actually a personal choice).. but you can get that PAr w/ 2 Beamswork Pent. .5W LEds..
For.. drum roll $125............
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016P96UA8...ing=UTF8&psc=1

not sure where you believe LEd's are, currently, soo costly..


Of course your lights would be only a few inches off the tank top..
mounting time: practically zero..Just put the feet on and plop..
NO secondary hood assembly required..
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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
not discussing color ATM
Well we have to discuss color because that's half the equation!

Nobody said you couldnt get more than enough par with an inexpensive led. Of course you can. So what?

Nothing against those Beamsworks, or any other light on that PAR chart. They just dont look very good on tanks with lots of color. Or to put it differently, they'll do a poor job of bringing out colors. Surely even you would agree with that.

Fine for a nature style though.
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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 08:58 PM
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Right.. color becomes subjective (feels odd arguing this side of the equation)...
8000k led is pretty ADA standard.. Ask all the Kessil fanatics..
not much different than a Finnex Ray II
....... and have been attacking this windmill for a few years now.. it is self inflicted..
Only would take tweaking 20% of the diodes in any cheap fixture to create a better "look"..

The, yes expensive, Fluval has excellent color. Halo, Radion, Sat plus pro have full color adjustment going from low to high K looks..highlighting any and all colors you want..

Problem is things like ADA and the "mh" look is more prevalent, and w/ cheaper or high K diodes your CRI suffers creating a "flat" look..
"we" can be are own worse enemy..

Point is it is all a market thing.. not a technology thing..

YOU have a VERY valid point btw.. Don't get me wrong, but I prefer to attack the problem rather than withdraw from it....

Technically building a multi-spectrum static light is not much more expensive than a simple "white" led..
This, sans control has diode costs at all about the same cost.. regardless of color..


an argument is not winnable when 1/2 is subjective..

you may prevail in the present, but will not in the future..
even tubes are mostly RGB...

I rarely do this as it is a bit rude.. But your photos seem to be SERIOUSLY color enhanced..

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Last edited by jeffkrol; 06-19-2017 at 10:06 PM. Reason: edit
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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 09:56 PM
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I'm using T5HO because they are cheaper to get what I need.

If you show me Kessils at a comparative price range, I'll be all over them. But they only become economically viable if you have expensive electricity, and then it's over a period of years.
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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TormentedFishTank View Post
I'm using T5HO because they are cheaper to get what I need.

If you show me Kessils at a comparative price range, I'll be all over them. But they only become economically viable if you have expensive electricity, and then it's over a period of years.
i have no love for Freshwater Kessils.. consider them old tech..
Radion XR15 Gen4 is more "new tech"..and expensive..

Take any cheap 6500k LED and pair it w/ a color adj "mate".. i.e Current/vivagrow, or 24/7 and you will be able to dial in a look you like..
Exactly like a tube? Errr no.. the tech is "just" different enough to not be a perfect emulation.

Burr740 uses tube colors to do exactly that.. Change the ratios of RGB..
6500k tube:

http://www.carnivorousplants.org/how...r/Lighting.php



light is light.. any can be adjusted to what you want..
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Last edited by jeffkrol; 06-19-2017 at 10:16 PM. Reason: edit
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