Kessil is equal to ? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
jgc
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Kessil is equal to ?

Once upon a time (near my join date), I had a dense forest. It was lit by a 250 watt HQI pendent. had CO2, used EI - all was good in the world. Except the bulb burned out. As an emergency went to 2 2x40 watt T8's (given I had a 50 gallon, had some overhang), and things kept growing till I got a new bulb. Then it burned out...

Well since then I have given up on the HQI, went to ODNO, then 2 80 watt power compacts, back to HQI (multiple bulbs, multiple transformers, repairs to pendent - none really helped, would get 2 months tops out of the bulb, back to ODNO (that one caught fire), a Finex Ray 2 (destroyed by a suicidal cat), and now using an Offroad LED light bar (iirc 60 or 80 watts, 20x3 leds I think) - fairly bright with a little shimmer (I really don't want to think of the time, effort, and money my musical lights have wasted. Never got back to HQI shimmer or plant growth.

Currently neglecting the tank, so I can not say that the growth problems are the LED light bars issue or now. Keeping some plants alive, but not thriving. Moss and algae are fighting for dominance... All that really does not matter. Considering getting back to the begging (new ferts, new test kits, and a new light)

Just curious - how does the Kessil (various sizes) compare to a single HQI pendent. The HQI had good enough spill that it covered my 18x36x18 aquarium. I expect 2 160's would give better coverage, a 360 would give better shimmer and duplicate the 250 watt HQI more closely, maybe????

58 gallon oceanic, Kessel 360 tun sun, pressurized co2, eheim pimp #179 - 2217 and diffuser
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 02:05 PM
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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Looked at my existing fixture, 40 led's (so could be 120 watt). Currently feeding it with a 360 watt power supply. Temp gun shows the fixture maxing at 140. Fairly quiet since only the power supply is fanned.
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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 07:24 PM
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The Kessil 360 is 90W but well focused..
Best in a square footprint.
2 160's would be better coverage for a non-square tank...but both are less PAR than your 250mH
BUT depends on reflector/bulb/ballast..

Either way both are a lot if you are at normal depths..

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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
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Kept doing research. General opinions were manufacturers liked to claim that their LED's were the equivalent to a 250 watt MH, but never gave relivent data (which 250 watt MH). In practice, every first person account said they did not look as bright. At the same time, I read instructions to acclimate aquarium by and slowing increasing the light levels of the Kessil and read reports of them bleaching corals (localized levels of too much light). While many seem to be happy with them, I really did not see a single post of better grow with led. Saw several issues of them failing as well.

In the end, it is impossible to reallly compare I guess (apples and oranges). One post mentioned man use them and are happy with them-if they work for you is what matters.

Basicslly back to the drawing board. 2 360's would definitely put more light than 1, or than 2 160's, and most likely more than My current 120 watt, and possibly more than my old 250hqi. As such, I am probably not going with the 2 160's. Am still temped to try the 360, understanding a second would be better than 1... that said, plenty of higher priority things to do first.

58 gallon oceanic, Kessel 360 tun sun, pressurized co2, eheim pimp #179 - 2217 and diffuser
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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 06:28 PM
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Kept doing research. General opinions were manufacturers liked to claim that their LED's were the equivalent to a 250 watt MH, but never gave relivent data (which 250 watt MH). In practice, every first person account said they did not look as bright. At the same time, I read instructions to acclimate aquarium by and slowing increasing the light levels of the Kessil and read reports of them bleaching corals (localized levels of too much light). While many seem to be happy with them, I really did not see a single post of better grow with led. Saw several issues of them failing as well.

In the end, it is impossible to reallly compare I guess (apples and oranges). One post mentioned man use them and are happy with them-if they work for you is what matters.

Basicslly back to the drawing board. 2 360's would definitely put more light than 1, or than 2 160's, and most likely more than My current 120 watt, and possibly more than my old 250hqi. As such, I am probably not going with the 2 160's. Am still temped to try the 360, understanding a second would be better than 1... that said, plenty of higher priority things to do first.
@2 Aquaticlife HALO's (Master/slave) are, arguably a better choice at that price point.
Now to be perfectly clear, while Kessil reef lights are just fine, I find the freshwater way behind the current curve of freshwater lighting.
Restricting the range from 6000-9000k is downright primitive to today's "standards"

bugs me that they don't use their tech to at least supplement red/cyan in their FW..
kind of a throw out a bone line..
They understand the issues, they sell hort. lights (which btw are about 1/2 the cost of "aquarium specific" lights, another gotcha point, being overpriced for the sake of being overpriced..)
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
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Well slowly making progress with diving into the deep end with the restart. Pulled out my co2 cylinder to go get it refilled (that would have been a 5 hr trip) only to find it still had some residual pressure. Seems I must have shut off the valve at some point to conserve co2 after the tank failed (assume the cat suicide). Ordered an eheim 350 surface skimmer to deal with my messy eaters (without the air stones that are currently keeping them alive). Noticed that autodosers are more affordable, so will have one of those in a few days as well.

Working on getting a new diatom filter, looking at a bear valley Vortex conversion.
Will hunt the classified for plants soon (attempting Monday shipping)


Which leaves ordering the light and asc. At a loss as to best Kessil vender. Will probably just randomly pick one when I get back from work (lfs is over 2hrs away and unlikely to stock them anyway)

58 gallon oceanic, Kessel 360 tun sun, pressurized co2, eheim pimp #179 - 2217 and diffuser
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 07:54 PM
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So what was your question again? I kinda got lost reading every post.

My exp with Kessil is they are good lighting for growing plants. Whatever i throw in the tank grows. But the color temp, even if i dial the light to its lowest temp setting, would wash out the redplants' color. Kinda like the same problem with those old ADA 8000K HQI bulbs.

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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by huhu89151734 View Post
So what was your question again? I kinda got lost reading every post.

My exp with Kessil is they are good lighting for growing plants. Whatever i throw in the tank grows. But the color temp, even if i dial the light to its lowest temp setting, would wash out the redplants' color. Kinda like the same problem with those old ADA 8000K HQI bulbs.
bingo.. poor CRI, poor range...

BTW: In case anyone was wondering .. this honesty is to get Kessil off their as..... not to berate any users..



One 5700K luminous devices 98CRI chip will beat the pants of that one........
http://www.luminus.com/products/Lumi..._Datasheet.pdf

Check the red component and high cyan on the 5600k chip

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Last edited by jeffkrol; 02-15-2017 at 08:20 PM. Reason: edit
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
bingo.. poor CRI, poor range...

BTW: In case anyone was wondering .. this honesty is to get Kessil off their as..... not to berate any users..

But i would argue this is the problem with all of the current LEDs on the market. Just some are bad and some are worse

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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 08:37 PM
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not really...but first since I found it..again


But back to the subject.. It is inherent in lights that use only higher k whites and of course those w/ poor QC..
Take the Finnex w/ 8000k whites but adds 660nm reds.. May not "score" the best CRI but substitutes "red pop".
Fluval "scores" 8000k but uses ww,cw, and colors..
aquaticlife Halo..
Sat plus pro
SAt plus
Finnex 24/7


even multi-colored Chinese stuff on eek bay has added "colors"
And for a change it is not just a gimmick..

If you want to compare the Kessil to anything.. finnex RayII or any 6500K Beamsworks.. but think of the price difference..

My main point is Kessil should know better..look at their hort. line. Not sure why they haven't upgraded their chip to be honest..

apparently they think it is "good enough" I beg to differ..
does it grow plants sure.
does it shimmer ..sure
does it look cool.. yep..
But even candles (with enough of them) will grow plants.. and maybe even better, being high in red.. and a blackbody spread..

since I am on a roll here.. I'll add the next "oddity" of the Kessils..
Kessil "logic" allows one to maintain a constant output w a change in spectrum.. i.e as you, say increase ch2 (say the 9000k channel) ch1 needs to decrease to maintain a constant output.
Great concept but keep in mind that means at 50/50 the ind. channels are running at 1/2 power..

In other words the light, theoretically is capable of 2x the output but it throttled down to make headroom for spectrum tweaking..
At least that is how I see it..

If you get bored..Keep in mind some is def. opinion..
TMC Grobeam 1500 X2 or Fluval Plant 2.0 X2
https://youtu.be/L3LWXznJx_0

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Last edited by jeffkrol; 02-16-2017 at 03:47 AM. Reason: edit
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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 12:44 AM
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 02:33 AM
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It is what it is..


I stand by what I said...........

Like Bose vs Klipsch..





sorry playing w/ a new (used) camera...
AND it is a bit unfair since the foreground light is a Sorra high CRI chip based on a violet pump @5000k
Background lighting is Luminous Devices 4000k high CRI.

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."

Last edited by jeffkrol; 02-16-2017 at 03:49 AM. Reason: edit
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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post


It is what it is..


I stand by what I said...........

Like Bose vs Klipsch..





sorry playing w/ a new (used) camera...
AND it is a bit unfair since the foreground light is a Sorra high CRI chip based on a violet pump @5000k
Background lighting is Luminous Devices 4000k high CRI.
FYI , my links is for the benefit of the OP to have a visual of real life, perhaps those tanks will fit his desire.
Had it been in reference to anything you posted , i would have quoted you directly , in your words -it is what it is.

This is direct response to your reference of Bose and Klipsch - for my personal taste , neither is worth listening to, too bright/harsh my refined listening appeal .
Regards

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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 01:14 PM
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for my personal taste , neither is worth listening to, too bright/harsh my refined listening appeal .
Regards
Ironic.. that is how I usually feel about >7000K LED lighting..


The Best Aquarium Light For Beginners

RAYII



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Quote:
If you’ve previously used flouroescent lights, you’ll be shocked at how much brighter and more vivid your tank will look with these things—it’s ridiculous.

LED lights like this are what gives that ‘extra pop’ to those professional setups like TheGreenMachine and others.

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."

Last edited by jeffkrol; 02-16-2017 at 01:33 PM. Reason: edit
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