New custom LEDs in the making - Page 3 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #31 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 01:26 PM
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hat question is really a matter of personal preference..
No right or wrong answer..

Like the difference between tannin stained "Amazonia" tanks and crisp "white" Alpine lake..

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post #32 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 02:01 PM
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hat question is really a matter of personal preference..
No right or wrong answer..

Like the difference between tannin stained "Amazonia" tanks and crisp "white" Alpine lake..
Hopefully this isn't hijacking the thread, but maybe the overall Kelvin rating is important for the OP to consider as well?

Would contributors like to suggest where their personal preference lies? (assuming the lighting has a decent CRI in the first place, as that can otherwise sway what people think).

In my house for instance, I threw out any 3000K bulbs and replaced them with 2700K's, but I'm not sure myself what tank lighting colour looks best in comparison but would be looking for something which simply looks normal/natural.
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post #33 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 12:18 AM
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Would contributors like to suggest where their personal preference lies? (assuming the lighting has a decent CRI in the first place, as that can otherwise sway what people think).

In my house for instance, I threw out any 3000K bulbs and replaced them with 2700K's, but I'm not sure myself what tank lighting colour looks best in comparison but would be looking for something which simply looks normal/natural.
I think it will all come down to the PAR values.
I have recently been shocked by some PAR readings on some of my DIY builds.
Some have been great and other combinations not so good.

I took the opposite approach in the house.
If it ain't 5000K right to the trash can.

Swimming is not that difficult.
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post #34 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-10-2016, 04:36 AM Thread Starter
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Just a quick update on the COB LEDs. I spoke to the manufacturer and the engineers said they can make a custom COB chip with extremely high CRI. The chip can be made 50 or 100w. The wavelength combination is as follows 5% 420nm,8% 470nm,6% 490nm,7% 525nm,1% 620nm,2% 630nm,6% 660nm,20% 2700K white,20% 4000K white,25% 5700K white. The CCT should be around 5600K. According to the calculations from the engineers the CRI with this combo is predicted between 95 and 100. They won't know exactly until I have the chip built and they can test it. I can also have a custom fixture built to house these COB chips. I just need to think of a design and they will be able to make a mould for the fixture. This could be an opportunity for me to design something really cool. So what ideas do you guys have for fixture design? I was thinking either something modular or a pendant type light sort of like a Kessil. Any ideas would be appreciated.
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post #35 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-10-2016, 06:59 AM
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Just a quick update on the COB LEDs. I spoke to the manufacturer and the engineers said they can make a custom COB chip with extremely high CRI. The chip can be made 50 or 100w. The wavelength combination is as follows 5% 420nm,8% 470nm,6% 490nm,7% 525nm,1% 620nm,2% 630nm,6% 660nm,20% 2700K white,20% 4000K white,25% 5700K white. The CCT should be around 5600K. According to the calculations from the engineers the CRI with this combo is predicted between 95 and 100. They won't know exactly until I have the chip built and they can test it. I can also have a custom fixture built to house these COB chips. I just need to think of a design and they will be able to make a mould for the fixture. This could be an opportunity for me to design something really cool. So what ideas do you guys have for fixture design? I was thinking either something modular or a pendant type light sort of like a Kessil. Any ideas would be appreciated.
It'll be nice to have a COB to cover the full spectrum with better distribution for plants. Form factor is more of aesthetics, things like heat dissipation with minimal noise(fan or just heat sink), uniform light spread and dimming are more desirable features. COB LED is a point source spotlight. it's necessary to diffuse the light to cover a larger area evenly and reduce "disco effect", which is a common problem seen in fixtures with multi-color LED emitters. You may get better idea from fixtures of similar type such as Kessil,Aquatic life Halo, Ecotech Radion. Each of them use different ways, either lens or diffuser, to achieve better spread over a larger area(say 24"X24"). Non Dimmable 100W COB is seriously strong point source that spells trouble in a planted tank.

Last edited by kilauea91; 12-10-2016 at 07:00 AM. Reason: typo
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post #36 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-23-2016, 04:08 AM Thread Starter
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Another update on how these are coming along. I listed the wrong ratio last time, the correct ratio is as follows.
channels 1/2:
3x420nm
4x470nm
3x490nm
4x425nm
1x620nm
2x630nm
3x660nm
channel 3:
9x2700K
channel 4:
9x4000K
channel 5:
9x5700K

I am planning on making the color temperature controllable on these lights by controlling the 2700K channel. By dimming the 2700K channel I can achieve a range from 5500K to 7000K CCT without compromising the CRI. I will also have a second control that will dim all of the channels while keeping the ratios the same. For fixture style I am leaning towards a pendant type fixture similar to a kessil or aquatic life halo. I have a pair of kessils over my reef and just really love the sleek design and small form factor. I am thinking of having two options for the beam angle, one wide and one narrow. The wide option will use either a 140 or 150 lens and the narrow option will use a 70 lens. I will most likely go with a 100w chip for these fixtures. Here is the theoretical spectral chart.

This light will probably offer one of the fullest and most balanced spectrums of all the LED fixtures available to the hobby at this point. The peaks in the red blue and violet areas of the spectrum match most of the important wavelengths for photosynthesis while achieving an extremely high CRI value that will make plant colors appear very natural and vibrant to the eye. The use of a COB emitter also blends all of these colors together nicely because of how closely packed the LEDs are. I am personally pretty excited to start putting this light into production. So what does everyone here think? Who would want a light like this on their tank? Any more input is always appreciated.
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post #37 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-23-2016, 05:25 PM
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Nice job.. Next time just use a high density of Yuji .5w emitters..



LED Emitter Products | VTC-5730 | Yuji International

TM-30-15 High Fidelity and Full Color Gamut LEDs | Yuji LED


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post #38 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-23-2016, 07:12 PM
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I am personally pretty excited to start putting this light into production. So what does everyone here think? Who would want a light like this on their tank? Any more input is always appreciated.

I'm excited to see people finally putting some research into better full spectrum LED's and actually putting them into production for terrariums and aquariums. The only additional input I would add is that I'd be more likely to use a horizontal type light than a pendent style.



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post #39 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-24-2016, 02:44 AM Thread Starter
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Using this method of mixing various wavelength and color temperature LEDs on the same emitter should result in a similar high quality light source to the yuji LEDs while also giving some options for controllability.
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post #40 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-24-2016, 03:02 AM Thread Starter
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I'm excited to see people finally putting some research into better full spectrum LED's and actually putting them into production for terrariums and aquariums. The only additional input I would add is that I'd be more likely to use a horizontal type light than a pendent style.



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I am not yet totally set on a fixture design so its alway helpful to get input on this. The thing with COB emitters is that they make more sense being used in pendant or modular type fixtures in terms of keeping form factor small and dissipating the heat from such a dense LED cluster.
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post #41 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-26-2016, 11:22 PM
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I am not yet totally set on a fixture design so its alway helpful to get input on this. The thing with COB emitters is that they make more sense being used in pendant or modular type fixtures in terms of keeping form factor small and dissipating the heat from such a dense LED cluster.
I think we need more pendant style lights. The last thing we need in this hobby is more bulky looking equipment. Would be amazing if as much thought went into the design as it did the light output
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post #42 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-05-2017, 03:30 PM
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Congratulations on furthering this and getting a really high CRI. If you could achieve that in a screw-in type COB bulb then you might have greater commercial success outside the hobby than within it. If you can provide some sort of standard replaceable bulb base then it means you could subsequently sell bulb upgrades or replacements without people having to change the fixtures.

Some of the extremely minimal hanging pendant-type fixtures can look great themselves, but I prefer a bar-type fixture such as the BML's. I prefer for my light to be placed near the front and angled towards the back of the tank so that you get to best see the colour and iridescent reflection of the fish while looking at them from the front of the tank rather than the top... And that's a little more tricky to do perhaps with most suspended fixtures, but many people still seem to buy those.

Perhaps an interesting minimal design which could be height adjustable from the rear and which wouldn't require unsightly wires or drilling into your ceiling could be one whic has ninety-degree arms coming off the back of the tank and extending over it - kind of like this http://www.petsathome.com/webapp/wcs...res-tank-white

Heat dissipation is key however, and it might be trickier to achieve that with a cob bulb than with others, especially if you're planning on providing high-intensity fixtures. Take a look at the heat-pipe (fan-less/pump-less) cooling strategy which Dyson are using on their lights for comparison - Why Dyson's new lights are worth 399+ | T3
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post #43 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
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I have to modify the spectrum slightly because I decided to use a 100w chip and the previous spectrum was designed for a 50w chip. Anyway, I have a question. How important is color controllability for you guys? By getting rid of the Kelvin Temperature control I will be able to keep the price lower. Me personally, I could care less about controlling color temperature and really just see it as a perk but I want to see what others think. If I am offering an LED fixture that offers a perfect balanced full spectrum but at a set K temp around 5500K-6000K would that really have a negative influence on your decision to purchase the fixture?

Second piece of new information. I contacted Yuji LED to see if they would be willing to collaborate to produce aquarium LED fixtures and they said that they would. To summarize, their VTC series uses the violet emitter with rgb phosphor resulting in the most perfect spectrum. The downside is that the VTC series is way less efficient at only around 65-85lm/w. The BC series uses a blue emitter with just rg phosphor, is much more efficient at 80-140lm/w, but is missing wavelengths in the violet part of the spectrum. I am thinking of producing some linear fixtures using their smd LEDs. (Yuji did try to make COB chips with their VTC series but there were too many issues with heat management. They do make COB chips with the BC series though but again the bc series is lacking in the violet part of the spectrum which is important.) I was thinking of combining both the vtc and bc series to get the best of efficiency and perfect spectrum. Thoughts on this idea? These would most likely be in addition to the COB fixture.
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post #44 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 08:38 PM
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I am thinking of producing some linear fixtures using their smd LEDs.
yuji has/had strip modules in the VTC series.. also ribbons.. some w/ dual spectrum (high k low K ) on separate channels..

Problem was all constant voltage and their inventory and products change w/ the wind....
You can get them in constant current arrangements but pricy.. real pricy..

They do make the CV ones w/ little waste w/ the resistors so not much of an issue.
as to L/w Sorra has the same issue..
Keep in mind some of this is "measurement error". Lumens underweight a good part of the "full spectrum" LED's..
PAR or some other measurement is more fitting.
Point is a high powered "horticultural" LED w/ little to no "green-ish" would have a poor L/W ratio...due to measurement "error" yet be quite strong.

some COBs are now exceeding 150L/w

as to "color changing" well to me that is THE point of LED's...Fading (and ease of) next.
but I wouldn't consider myself a target market either.
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post #45 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 04:49 PM
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How much lower would the price be without the temperature controllability? I presume you're looking to do at least a slightly more high-end fixture if you're aiming for high CRI, so if you can include temperature control within that market segment I'd think that would be worthwhile so long as it doesn't add more than 10-20% to the price as that would then be one of the unique selling points of the fixture. But you might want to make sure it can get fairly warm, possibly up to about 4000K or lower even if you set the warm-whites to their maximum.
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